JV1970 replies: "You need to read the clause about religion more closely. The first amendment gives us freedom OF religion, not FROM it and it also gives us the right to freely exercise our religion. FREELY! THAT MEANS ANYWHERE AND ANYTIME! It DOES NOT say except in our schools!
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JV, the point is that MANDATING that ANY prayer from ANY religion be recited in our schools that are PUBLIC and consist of students of ALL faiths, even none, is NOT giving anyone any kind of "freedom" period. That's why I am in favor of schools starting each day with a moment of "silent meditation". That way EVERYBODY can exercise their freedom to pray to whomever they worship or to just take a moment to reflect and prepare for the day. It should be a CHOICE and not a MANDATE to a particular prayer no matter what religion that prayer might be affiliated with.
Not allowing the Christian children to pray or recite the Lord's Prayer or the Pledge of Allegiance, with the words under God, aloud is infringing on their right to freedom of speech! Even you can't disagree with that!
JV, so then we would have to allow all Muslem children, Buddist children, Jewish and whatever other faith children to ALSO pray or recite their OWN prayers ALOUD and what chaos that would creat. A moment of silent meditation ALLOWS EVERYBODY to pray or recite (albeit not aloud out of respect for everyone else)whatever they wish without FORCING them to listen to somebody ELSE'S prayer. You just don't get it do you. It's about respect for others and not considering yourself or your religion as BETTER than others who have a perfect right to attend the same school you do. If you want to pray outloud then go to a specific Christian school. If muslem kids want to get down on their prayer rugs they cannot do it in a publicly funded school. Get over yourself! EQUAL rights means that EVERYBODY has the SAME rights so let them ALL pray however they wish, just not aloud in a public school. That does not disallow the prayer at all but it keeps things equal for ALL. If they want to pray outloud go do it on a public street where people can CHOOSE to listen or not because they are not confined to a classroom. They can just walk away.
rightontarget I attended a school that was predominently Christian by a very large majority. There was maybe one or two Jewish children and two practicing Native Americans. The rest claimed to be Christian. There were no Buddhist or Hindu or any other religions in our school.
Every morning when we had our morning prayer and Bible reading and recited the Pledge of Allegiance they stood with us and had no problem with it. That's the way it should be today!
JV, I attended the very same type of school you described. Back in my day that is how it was. We even had a Mennonite boy who would stand for the Pledge of Allegiance but would not recite it because he believe the only thing you "pledge allegiance" to was God but he stood out of respect for the country. As I got older I moved around a little and had a chance to experience schools with a more diverse student body. Many kids who had been taught their various prejudices by previous generations did not socialize with those who were not within their own particular circle and I thought that was apalling! When I became old enough to observe and think for myself, I realized that there is a lot of "us" and "them" mentality out there. (along with a whole lot of "better than") I think that when any particular group or religion seems to view themselves as better or superior than and therefore they can do what they wish while others have to watch and listen they are becomming just a little too self-righteous and that is wrong. It's the whole idea of opening up that door where everybody even if there is only one or two in the minority, has to abide by one group who is taking the lead. (probably because they feel they are on some kind of mission from God to do so or will get some better reward in Heaven) Even if it is not the case in some areas just think about in order to be fair about it ANY religion should be able to recite THEIR own prayers or pray to THEIR GOD or read for THEIR religious book and have everybody else have to stand with them. If you allow one religion to do that then you have to allow ALL. That's why I think silent meditation is the way to go. That gives respect to ALL and allows EVERYBODY to practice their OWN faith in their OWN way without giving anybody the "lead".
Personally, I am a Chtistian BUT I do NOT believe that reciting the Lord's Prayer in school is appropriate. I hate the fact that most Christians feel it is somehow their obligation to shove their belief down everyone elses throat and that doing that somehow is God's will. That is such a crock! I thing the lack of respect for others is what gives Christianity a bad name. I think it would be a great idea if the schools did start out every day with a moment of "silent meditation". Then students can use that time to pray (regardless of what "God" they CHOSE to pray to) if they if they wish or just reflect on things. It has a calming and uplifting affect and would start the day in a good manner. Forcing any particular religion's prayer to be recited for everybody is just another right-wing form of bullying.
So what you're saying is that you think it's fine for non-believers to force their unbelief on Christians! If Christians aren't allowed to pray freely that's exactly what you're saying!
JV, although I am a believer I do NOT agree with forcing my belief on others. You have it backwards. It's not the "non-believers" who are "forcing their unbelief on Christians." It's the other way around. The only thing that is being "forced" here is TOLERANCE and that is how it should be!
"While you are entitled to your opinion; you do not have the right to inflict your opinion on others."
Exactly the point! What is that substance between your ears? It sure isn't brains, genus. In the public arena, the US Constitution guarantees freedom from religion as much as freedom of religion. IOW, if an organization is funded by tax monies, it is a religion free zone. If it is privately funded, you can have all the religion talk you want. It's really simple: tax money is not to be used to support any religious group or particular religion.
JV1970 replies: There is one thing about me that you both should know! I received the Lord as my Savior a long time ago
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We'd never guess that you're among the religious-afflicted.....
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology." - Thomas Jefferson
The arrogance of these dogma drones is unparalleled. Because they choose to believe the fairy tale they feel empowered to require the programming of young minds with this hooey as well.
JV1970 replies: There is one thing about me that you both should know! The Bible teaches us to be rooted and grounded in our faith and in the Word of God.
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And common sense tells us not to accept anything as fact unless it can be proven as such....
JV1970 you are making a logical fallacy, that is, confusing opinion with fact. It is your opinion that there is only one true god. That is not a fact, it is your belief. You are not tolerant of others who hold different opinions and beliefs. That makes it impossible to argue with you, because you are very closed minded.
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JV, the point is that MANDATING that ANY prayer from ANY religion be recited in our schools that are PUBLIC and consist of students of ALL faiths, even none, is NOT giving anyone any kind of "freedom" period. That's why I am in favor of schools starting each day with a moment of "silent meditation". That way EVERYBODY can exercise their freedom to pray to whomever they worship or to just take a moment to reflect and prepare for the day. It should be a CHOICE and not a MANDATE to a particular prayer no matter what religion that prayer might be affiliated with.
Every morning when we had our morning prayer and Bible reading and recited the Pledge of Allegiance they stood with us and had no problem with it. That's the way it should be today!
It also gives us the freedom of speech.
No where does it say we have to adhere to the crap spewed by some of the posters on this page.
While you are entitled to your opinion; you do not have the right to inflict your opinion on others.
I choose to ignore you completely.!
"While you are entitled to your opinion; you do not have the right to inflict your opinion on others."
Exactly the point! What is that substance between your ears? It sure isn't brains, genus. In the public arena, the US Constitution guarantees freedom from religion as much as freedom of religion. IOW, if an organization is funded by tax monies, it is a religion free zone. If it is privately funded, you can have all the religion talk you want. It's really simple: tax money is not to be used to support any religious group or particular religion.
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We'd never guess that you're among the religious-afflicted.....
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And common sense tells us not to accept anything as fact unless it can be proven as such....
Seems that it happened right around the time Fox closed doen much of its comment blogs.