cydygitt2 replies: Yes, actually the unions made concessions years ago in this case, and lost 8% in wages and a few thousand jobs, and when asked to do it again after management got huge raises and golden parachutes, the Teamsters actually gave Hostess more concessions, but the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, said "enough was enough," and went on strike last week. That union said the demands from management were unreasonable -- and they were very unreasonable!
_____________________
And now they can sit at home, if they have one left and not work at all, no pay, no benefits....nothing....game over.
Congratulations....
BTW, no more management either, no more raises, no more golden parachutes.
It all over....bye bye....
And since they walked off the job, they should get no unemployment benefits either.
cydygitt2 says: History has shown us that America's best years of job creation and economic growth happened during years of higher taxes and strength in the unions supporting middle class jobs. ______________________________
Please tell me you didn't really expect the Unions to admit any culpability on the failure of any business or industry.
Is the Union going to support or find jobs for all the workers who lost their jobs until they can find another one.?
Unemployment is already 9.7% (a totally made up number), and now even more are unemployed with the closing of a business that has been in operation for more than 100 years.
So tired of the idiots who didn't even bother to read the story or get the facts blaming everything on Unions, responding like Pavlov's dogs at the mere mention of Unions. You don't even bother to recognize that the union made concessions years ago and that the higher ups were rewarded obscenely even while the company was going down.
Yes, actually the unions made concessions years ago in this case, and lost 8% in wages and a few thousand jobs, and when asked to do it again after management got huge raises and golden parachutes, the Teamsters actually gave Hostess more concessions, but the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, said "enough was enough," and went on strike last week. That union said the demands from management were unreasonable -- and they were very unreasonable!
SWIFT29 replies: "I not only deplore but get angry at the dimwitted regurgitation of conservative bile that spews from the font whenever the word union is even mentioned. Nothing but diarrhea of the mouth. These circlejerks will never read up on the subject but simply try to spread the lies they consume from uneducated media hacks carrying water for corporate-conservative interests."
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History has shown us that America's best years of job creation and economic growth happened during years of higher taxes and strength in the unions supporting middle class jobs. That's a fact, and it's just a shame that the GOP and their conservative minions, feel the need to continue to scapegoat unions and minorities to push their agenda!
FACT: The poorest states are the RED states in the deep south, and they are "right to work" states, giving corporations the upper hand when it comes to wages and benefits, and BOTH the residents and corporations are subsidized by federal tax dollars mainly from the BLUE states!
Guess Who Benefits More From Your Taxes?
There are serious economists who study the difference between what our states pay in taxes and how much they get in return from the U.S. government.
The numbers, for decades now, have been quite clear: With some exceptions, what we regard as RED states are sent a whole lot more of your hard-earned tax dollars than the traditional BLUE states. In effect, supposedly indolent, "tax and spend" liberals actually subsidize the individualistic, pure, and "hard-working lifestyle" of our conservative countrymen.
The results will stun many people, though not me: I've been telling my Tea Party relatives this for years. Here's a list of the top 10 states that got the most back in terms of federal benefits:
1. New Mexico ---- Indian reservations, military bases, federal research labs, farm subsidies, retirement programs
2. Mississippi ---- Farm subsidies, military spending, nutrition and anti-poverty aid, retirement programs.
3. Alaska ---- Per capita No 1 recipient of federal benefits; infrastructure projects, DOT and pork projects.
4. Louisiana ---- Disaster relief, farm subsidies, anti-poverty and nutrition aid, military spending.
5. W. Virginia ---- Farm subsidies, anti-poverty and nutrition aid.
6. N. Dakota ---- Farm subsidies, energy subsidies, retirement and anti-poverty programs, Indian reservations.
7. Alabama ---- Retirement programs, anti-poverty and nutrition aid, federal space/military spending, farm subsidies.
8. S. Dakota ---- Retirement programs, nutrition aid, farm subsidies, military spending, Indian reservations.
9. Virginia ---- Civil service pensions, military spending, veterans benefits, retirement, anti-poverty aid.
Are you sure you are an American that understands how this all works? Your comments is the best analysis of what is really going on in very short order. It is only made so hard by our corporate elite new media. The poorest Red States seem to love to make their bosses richer while they remain poor. How will the American worker ever learn. I really enjoyed your comments and we need more of your type of thinking in order to educate the average worker in America.
I think you have your facts mixed up. The deep south used to have agriculural based industries such as textiles, and tobacco. But many of the industries closed down or moved overseas as regulation or costs increased making the businesses uneconomical.
The south is trying to come back by luring industries with incentives which include lower employment costs. The "Right to Work" is a freedom that should be enjoyed by every american. But in some states, such as in the north where Unions have control over the supply of Labor,laws have been enacted that impede an individual's right to work. In these states an individual must join a union. This ensures the union has control over the supply of labor and hence insures is own survival at the cost of labor and industry. Many unions are pround of the wages and benefits they are able to obtain for workers. They can only do so if they control the supply of Labor.
The states below list a number of federal programs. Some programs listed such as Indian Reservations have no bearing on whether they are a Blue or Red state. Indian Reservations have come about from negotiations, with Indians, over what was seen as the unfair seizure of property years ago. To cite this as evidence that Republicans are taking advantage of the system is ludicris. Additionally, Retirement Benefits are paid to people who retire after years of Federal Service. How does that support your argument? And lastly, New Mexico,#1 on your list, is a Blue state and Virginia votes Blue in many elecions. So you are pointing fingers and insinuating but getting your facts mixed up. As is typical, you are faulting people for exactly what you are doing. I believe it was the comic strip Pogo, that was quoted "We have met the enemy and they are us".
I think you have your facts mixed up. The deep south used to have agriculural based industries such as textiles, and tobacco. But many of the industries closed down or moved overseas as regulation or costs increased making the businesses uneconomical.
The south is trying to come back by luring industries with incentives which include lower employment costs. The "Right to Work" is a freedom that should be enjoyed by every american. But in some states, such as in the north where Unions have control over the supply of Labor,laws have been enacted that impede an individual's right to work. In these states an individual must join a union. This ensures the union has control over the supply of labor and hence insures is own survival at the cost of labor and industry. Many unions are pround of the wages and benefits they are able to obtain for workers. They can only do so if they control the supply of Labor.
The states below list a number of federal programs. Some programs listed such as Indian Reservations have no bearing on whether they are a Blue or Red state. Indian Reservations have come about from negotiations, with Indians, over what was seen as the unfair seizure of property years ago. To cite this as evidence that Republicans are taking advantage of the system is ludicris. Additionally, Retirement Benefits are paid to people who retire after years of Federal Service. How does that support your argument? And lastly, New Mexico,#1 on your list, is a Blue state and Virginia votes Blue in many elecions. So you are pointing fingers and insinuating but getting your facts mixed up. As is typical, you are faulting people for exactly what you are doing. I believe it was the comic strip Pogo, that was quoted "We have met the enemy and they are us".
Oh, you mean when Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa were a pile of Rubble after WWII and there was NO ONE else making refrigerators, furniture and cars? During THAT Era? During the Era that EVERYTHING was tax deductible, from entertainment to meals to investments in your company to Dividends... During THAT era? We are living in the era of the highest EFFECTIVE tax rates that the Industrialized world has ever seen, because even in you reinvest ALL your money in your company you STILL have to pay taxes on it. These day you literally have to take a 5 year "amortization" on reinvestment deductions! At no other time in History did an average Manufacturing operation have to pay 1/3rd of their income in taxes, which is why almost every non food manufacturing company has moved away from the U.S.
LOL! Most Americans blame vulture capitalism like romney did at 'bain capital outsourcing,' for the Hostess debacle, and for the sluggish economy from continuous offshoring of middle class jobs!
The workers get shafted as usual___that sounds about right in a capitalistic society where CEOs and traders suffer not and everybody else has to pay the price, same as with most of us in this country getting shafted by our do-nothing Congress unless, again, if you're wealthy. The rich never suffer.
Luckily, both sides are wrong. Neither unions nor corporations malfunction in a growing economy. This quarrel grows nasty when the economy stagnates.
The goal ought to be to increase corporate profits responsibly and to achieve nearly full employment at wages high enough to insure that these well-paid workers suppport the consumer-driven sectors of the economy. The problem then becomes control of inflation, which is the real job of the FED.
People who get taken in by bashing unions or corporations are being played for suckers by political manipulators.
Actually, David Kaplan explained this "perfect storm" best:
"But in truth there are no black hats or white knights in this tale. It's about shades of gray, where obstinacy, miscalculation, and lousy luck connived to create corporate catastrophe. Almost none of the parties involved would speak on the record. Still, it's clear from court documents and background interviews with a range of sources that practically nobody involved can shoot straight: The Teamsters remain stuck in a time warp, unwilling to sufficiently adapt in a competitive marketplace. The PE firm failed to turn Hostess around after taking it over. The hedgies can't see beyond their internal rates of return. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera."
Wake up, unions have outlived their usefulness. There was a time when they were needed, they served a purpose but then got greedy and arrogant. Now they need to go. Hopefully the states where these workers live will deny unemployment compensation to all those who chose to not work. I sad day for all involved.
Actually, your conservative mantra endlessly scapegoating unions while letting unfettered capitalism and vulture capitalism rule, is just plain ignorant!
Agree with CYD, above, I not only deplore but get angry at the dimwitted regurgitation of conservative bile that spews from the font whenever the word union is even mentioned. Nothing but diarrhea of the mouth. These circlejerks will never read up on the subject but simply try to spread the lies they consume from uneducated media hacks carrying water for corporate-conservative interests. "Those who chose to not work." How uncomprehending and pigheaded.
I refer everyone to the above comments (unfortunate how cbs doesn't timestamp comments anymore): Maistir professes equanimity, then goes into macro policy and insults. CYD on the other hand smartly quotes the author of the Fortune article and shows another union's contribution, Wall Street types who throw in the towel when they can't make their targets, other factors and how the situation devolved over time. Not 'just the unions' or 'just Wall St.' But people, especially tea bag kneejerks only see black and white. THAT is sad.
Oh yes we should just get rid of the dam unions!!!! Then maybe you might be smart enough to blame the real power decision makers. Hey why stop at denying unemployment, why don't we just line up the workers and their families, put them in a work camp and if they get sick, then you can gas them so they don't become a drain on your life style. I hope you someday are given the same understanding when it's your turn. Think about the real problem, please don't blame the victims:) I know it makes you feel better, but someday it may be you. How would you feel if someone like you then said "it's your fault"
DH47 maybe capitalism have outlived their usefulness. Their was a time when capital owners had a moral compass, but their incomes prove whom is actually greedy. It very sad when you NOT able to define or use the words greedy and arrogant correctly in a sentence. You are living evidence of the decline of American education.
Hostess had 2 Billion Dollars in unfunded pension liabilities, what will happen to the people that are now retired, will their pensions stop? Will the fired (laid Off) workers receive any pension?
Actually, just like romney's 'bain capital offshoring' private-equity firm, as corporate raiders, they stole the assets including pension and health care funds of many companies, and handed that liability to the American taxpayers!
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_____________________
And now they can sit at home, if they have one left and not work at all, no pay, no benefits....nothing....game over.
Congratulations....
BTW, no more management either, no more raises, no more golden parachutes.
It all over....bye bye....
And since they walked off the job, they should get no unemployment benefits either.
History has shown us that America's best years of job creation and economic growth happened during years of higher taxes and strength in the unions supporting middle class jobs.
______________________________
Name the years.
Is the Union going to support or find jobs for all the workers who lost their jobs until they can find another one.?
Unemployment is already 9.7% (a totally made up number), and now even more are unemployed with the closing of a business that has been in operation for more than 100 years.
What's wrong with this picture.??!!
You people are pathetic!
---
History has shown us that America's best years of job creation and economic growth happened during years of higher taxes and strength in the unions supporting middle class jobs. That's a fact, and it's just a shame that the GOP and their conservative minions, feel the need to continue to scapegoat unions and minorities to push their agenda!
FACT: The poorest states are the RED states in the deep south, and they are "right to work" states, giving corporations the upper hand when it comes to wages and benefits, and BOTH the residents and corporations are subsidized by federal tax dollars mainly from the BLUE states!
Guess Who Benefits More From Your Taxes?
There are serious economists who study the difference between what our states pay in taxes and how much they get in return from the U.S. government.
The numbers, for decades now, have been quite clear: With some exceptions, what we regard as RED states are sent a whole lot more of your hard-earned tax dollars than the traditional BLUE states. In effect, supposedly indolent, "tax and spend" liberals actually subsidize the individualistic, pure, and "hard-working lifestyle" of our conservative countrymen.
1. New Mexico ---- Indian reservations, military bases, federal research labs, farm subsidies, retirement programs
2. Mississippi ---- Farm subsidies, military spending, nutrition and anti-poverty aid, retirement programs.
3. Alaska ---- Per capita No 1 recipient of federal benefits; infrastructure projects, DOT and pork projects.
4. Louisiana ---- Disaster relief, farm subsidies, anti-poverty and nutrition aid, military spending.
5. W. Virginia ---- Farm subsidies, anti-poverty and nutrition aid.
6. N. Dakota ---- Farm subsidies, energy subsidies, retirement and anti-poverty programs, Indian reservations.
7. Alabama ---- Retirement programs, anti-poverty and nutrition aid, federal space/military spending, farm subsidies.
8. S. Dakota ---- Retirement programs, nutrition aid, farm subsidies, military spending, Indian reservations.
9. Virginia ---- Civil service pensions, military spending, veterans benefits, retirement, anti-poverty aid.
10. Kentucky ---- Retirement programs, nutritional and anti-poverty aid, farm subsidies.
From the non-partisan Tax Foundation
The south is trying to come back by luring industries with incentives which include lower employment costs. The "Right to Work" is a freedom that should be enjoyed by every american. But in some states, such as in the north where Unions have control over the supply of Labor,laws have been enacted that impede an individual's right to work. In these states an individual must join a union. This ensures the union has control over the supply of labor and hence insures is own survival at the cost of labor and industry. Many unions are pround of the wages and benefits they are able to obtain for workers. They can only do so if they control the supply of Labor.
The states below list a number of federal programs. Some programs listed such as Indian Reservations have no bearing on whether they are a Blue or Red state. Indian Reservations have come about from negotiations, with Indians, over what was seen as the unfair seizure of property years ago. To cite this as evidence that Republicans are taking advantage of the system is ludicris. Additionally, Retirement Benefits are paid to people who retire after years of Federal Service. How does that support your argument? And lastly, New Mexico,#1 on your list, is a Blue state and Virginia votes Blue in many elecions. So you are pointing fingers and insinuating but getting your facts mixed up. As is typical, you are faulting people for exactly what you are doing. I believe it was the comic strip Pogo, that was quoted "We have met the enemy and they are us".
The south is trying to come back by luring industries with incentives which include lower employment costs. The "Right to Work" is a freedom that should be enjoyed by every american. But in some states, such as in the north where Unions have control over the supply of Labor,laws have been enacted that impede an individual's right to work. In these states an individual must join a union. This ensures the union has control over the supply of labor and hence insures is own survival at the cost of labor and industry. Many unions are pround of the wages and benefits they are able to obtain for workers. They can only do so if they control the supply of Labor.
The states below list a number of federal programs. Some programs listed such as Indian Reservations have no bearing on whether they are a Blue or Red state. Indian Reservations have come about from negotiations, with Indians, over what was seen as the unfair seizure of property years ago. To cite this as evidence that Republicans are taking advantage of the system is ludicris. Additionally, Retirement Benefits are paid to people who retire after years of Federal Service. How does that support your argument? And lastly, New Mexico,#1 on your list, is a Blue state and Virginia votes Blue in many elecions. So you are pointing fingers and insinuating but getting your facts mixed up. As is typical, you are faulting people for exactly what you are doing. I believe it was the comic strip Pogo, that was quoted "We have met the enemy and they are us".
We are living in the era of the highest EFFECTIVE tax rates that the Industrialized world has ever seen, because even in you reinvest ALL your money in your company you STILL have to pay taxes on it. These day you literally have to take a 5 year "amortization" on reinvestment deductions! At no other time in History did an average Manufacturing operation have to pay 1/3rd of their income in taxes, which is why almost every non food manufacturing company has moved away from the U.S.
The goal ought to be to increase corporate profits responsibly and to achieve nearly full employment at wages high enough to insure that these well-paid workers suppport the consumer-driven sectors of the economy. The problem then becomes control of inflation, which is the real job of the FED.
People who get taken in by bashing unions or corporations are being played for suckers by political manipulators.
"But in truth there are no black hats or white knights in this tale. It's about shades of gray, where obstinacy, miscalculation, and lousy luck connived to create corporate catastrophe. Almost none of the parties involved would speak on the record. Still, it's clear from court documents and background interviews with a range of sources that practically nobody involved can shoot straight: The Teamsters remain stuck in a time warp, unwilling to sufficiently adapt in a competitive marketplace. The PE firm failed to turn Hostess around after taking it over. The hedgies can't see beyond their internal rates of return. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera."
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/
Now they need to go. Hopefully the states where these workers live will deny unemployment compensation to all those who chose to not work. I sad day for all involved.
I refer everyone to the above comments (unfortunate how cbs doesn't timestamp comments anymore): Maistir professes equanimity, then goes into macro policy and insults. CYD on the other hand smartly quotes the author of the Fortune article and
shows another union's contribution, Wall Street types who throw in the towel when they can't make their targets, other factors and how the situation devolved over time. Not 'just the unions' or 'just Wall St.' But people, especially tea bag kneejerks only see black and white. THAT is sad.
It very sad when you NOT able to define or use the words greedy and arrogant correctly in a sentence.
You are living evidence of the decline of American education.