Comments on: Supreme Court: No Limits On Navy Sonar Use

Enviro Groups Had Said Sonar Affects Whales; Arguments Begin In Religious Monuments Case

[au_fait]

The constant climate change is due to the Earth''''s carbon dioxide cycle. The earth outgasses carbon dioxide naturally creating a greenhouse effect. As the earth warms, precipitation increases and removes atmospheric carbon dioxide.

Posted by Displeased

So please explain where newer studies show that the trend is reversed showing that the CO2 being released into the atmosphere or being dissolved/captured by precipitation actually follows temperature, not as you state.

At this time there is not right or wrong. There is evidence on both sides. It can be debated intelligently from both sides of the fence

[yeswedid]

"The Bush administration argued that there is little evidence of harm to marine life in more than 40 years of exercises off the California coast"

Of course they would say this. This current administration has never shown any care for anything except their bank accounts. Environmentalists believe that a sound ecosystem is pertinent for human survival, including the "mere" lives of ocean whales. When are people going to understand this--that every specie in are connected in our universe & we need to coexist in harmony??!! Human lives will be non-existant in the future if we continue to only think of ourselves now!

[displeased]

But guess what, when in time was there a point where the climate was not in flux. there have been other periods of extinction, rapid temperature cooling and warming, ect...
Posted by au_fait

The constant climate change is due to the Earth''s carbon dioxide cycle. The earth outgasses carbon dioxide naturally creating a greenhouse effect. As the earth warms, precipitation increases and removes atmospheric carbon dioxide. The weakened greenhouse effect cools the earth. When the earth is too cool, precipitation slows dissolving less CO2. Eventually outgassing will increase the CO2 in the atmosphere warming the planet again. Supposedly this is a very long process.

What is being debated is whether human activity is adding to the current increase. If the increase is too dramatic, then the earth will react with a severe cooling. The earth will survive, but can our species? Supposedly the earth has been in a snowball stage before, which we would not survive.

[au_fait]

Part two

The *** going on at this time is just another attempt for people to control what is going on. As for Gore he is full of ***. He just as many of the people promoting global warming are promoting it as they have interests in the cause. If you have a company selling carbon credits, DUH, you are going to promote it! If it gets you more funding, DUH!

[au_fait]

What''''s your point? DDT has been banned for decades due to the enormous damage it did, including destroying wildlife, and damaging human health.

Acid rain and damage to the ozone layer have caused damage that is well documented and accepted by scientists.

Even moron Bush appears to have finally accepted that there is irrefutable scientific evidence of global warming.

Are you so intensely stupid that you refute anything based on science???? I bet you voted for Bush. Twice.


Posted by cdfoxtrot5

You know science once said the world was flat, the universe revolved around the sun and the world was cooling. Do you really feel that science is always correct. do you believe everything you read or do you do your own research. You are just as guilty as ritewingman. Given twenty the data will change and a new hypothesis will be made. There is not enough data and we do not understand climate to accurately predict a world wide change. Man and computers cannot do this. All the *** in the news is due to the issue of there being a possibility of global warming. You cannot refute that there are areas of cooling and areas of warming. the best you can say is that there is global change. But guess what, when in time was there a point where the climate was not in flux. there have been other periods of extinction, rapid temperature cooling and warming, ect...

This is just more BUSHIT - There are no threats from subs to the United States - Not anymore - so what are they afraid of?

Posted by shado269 at 02:51 PM : Nov 12, 2008
***********************8

My rule: Always, ALWAYS follow the money. Behind all that high dollar equipment the Navy uses is somebody turnin'' a nickel. It wouldn''t matter if every sub in the world was scrapped save ours - the Navy would still promote taxpayer paid for, expensive anti-sub equipment. ''Cause that''s where the money is...

[displeased]

ritewingman, obviously you don''t read much.

[cdfoxtrot5]

You have to remember that almost all the hysteria that liberals create with their irrational emotionalism are eventually proved wrong. DDT, Acid Rain, Ozone layer, Man-made Global Warming (oops, they are still shilling that fraud), etc.
blah, blah, blah
Posted by ritewingman

What''s your point? DDT has been banned for decades due to the enormous damage it did, including destroying wildlife, and damaging human health.

Acid rain and damage to the ozone layer have caused damage that is well documented and accepted by scientists.

Even moron Bush appears to have finally accepted that there is irrefutable scientific evidence of global warming.

Are you so intensely stupid that you refute anything based on science???? I bet you voted for Bush. Twice.

[viscor]

This is yet another case of armchair scientists using hysteria to push their agenda. There isn%u2019t a single scientific study (that has undergone proper scientific peer review) that shows a positive correlation between the use of sonar and harmful effects to marine life. Not one!

Without the afore mentioned study then the best that can be said is that the link between sonar and harmful effect to marine life is simply a hypothesis.

Other hysteria based hypotheses:
- irradiated food is harmful
- nuclear power is dangerous (and/or puts out more dangerous waste) as compared with conventional energy sources.
- Cloning is evil
- Genetically engineered food is dangerous/bad for you.
- Silicone implants cause insert illness here
- vaccines cause an increase in insert illness here (including autism)
- fluoridated (sp?) water is harmful

None of the above hypotheses have studies to back them up and many of the above hypotheses have proper studies that show the exact opposite.

[m3site]

I''m a lot more concerned right now with Japan''s whaling ... I''m not saying this is unimportant, but that the outright killing must be #1 priority

[mckkkain]

Maybe the World Court and the U.N. can persuade the U.S.Government otherwise.

[ddaryl1]

Sonar definitely affects marine life, and the navy can do its tests out of the whales migratory paths to reduce the affect.

as for religous monuments. If you allow christian monuments then you need to accept every single religions monuments including atheist views. You can not force one religion on the people, that is not freedom of religion.

For those upset about that... too bad, we are either free or we are not, do you really want to travel down the "are not" road ?

[sandy19731]

Unless they allow *ALL* religious symbols, then ANY on public property now should be REMOVED, you can''''t put ten commandment stone in a public park foised by one group on us while excluding the hundreds of others. Time the Supreme court grow some balls and start ruling on this- religious symbols dont belong on PUBLIC property- PERIOD- put them in your CHURCH where that krap belongs.

Posted by newster1 at 01:41 PM : Nov 12, 2008
But, but, but what about my Flying Spagetti Monster plaque?
Just kidding, loved the comment.

[dbstevens]

This is another example of the military and the legal systems disregard and disrespect for other forms of life and for the environment. I''m ashamed of human beings that harbor these attitudes. They need to limit their activities until they''re SURE of the outcome. Human beings are disgusting when they impose themselves on nature like this. I wish whales (and other forms of life we''re hurting) could defend themselves.

[andor3]

"sound does not affect [whales] like it does humans..."

true: it affects them much more since they are more sensitive and sense of sound is more critical for their hunting and survival.

[twohares]

Tallyman,

Oh yeah... active sonar is only a "Joke" to submarines.
Submarines don''t go active as it alerts everyone to their position.
Surface ships, however, use active sonar to find subs as it doesn''t matter that everyone can hear their sonar. Their on the surface... everyone knows where they are anyway!
Also, active sonar (and especially SOSUS LFA) is used to discourage and "de-louse" sub-prone areas because it keeps the subs AWAY.

A real sonar tech would''ve known that.

OTM/STG for twenty years, dude. You''re outclassed.

[cdfoxtrot5]

I''''''''d like to know what "enemy submarines" they''''''''re talking about

Posted by cdfoxtrot5

Maybe, China, Russia, and North Korea to name a few. What an idiot you must be. I bet your mother is proud.

Posted by damn_fast

You forgot Israel, France, the Netherlands and the UK. Just because nations have submarines doesn''t mean they''re hostile to the US. Destroying wildlife and the environment for the sake of some more redundant "tests" is not in our interests.

And if Russia, etc. wanted to do the US damage, these "tests" won''t prevent them. Russia could end the US as a functioning society in, oh, about 15 minutes, if it so choose. Don''t be so foolish as to think that ploughing more and more into military efforts makes the US safer and immune from attack.

[twohares]

Tallyman,

Yeah, it does become tolerable "to whales". You suggested that I get in and listen to it... big difference. Yes, it would pretty much liquefy my innards. Big difference between whales and humans.
Whales are "liquid saturated" which is part of the reason they can dive to great depths and not "crush" as liquid doesn''t compress.
Sound doesn''t affect them like it does humans which actually have a lot of cavities and gases in the various tissues.
And, the whales make noises themselves that are in excess of 230 Db which is more than the sound pressure of the LFA sonar suite after it dissipates over a few hundred yards.
I''d like to see YOU put 230 Db right next to your ears and not spew blood.
Yet whales create that noise inside their head with no ill effects.
No... the sonar does not hurt them.

[andor3]

the military has needs, living creatures in the sea have needs. if there is a conflict, the military loses--their needs are insignificant because marine life affects the entire planet.

We need to protect the sea from the Navy.

[aldon61]

Perhaps the New Administration will make necessary changes once in Office.






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Posted by TallyMan2008 at 01:11 PM : Nov 12, 2008

Our supreme court is out of balance to the right. The only hope for the next few generations is that president Obama fill any vacancies in the image of Breyer, Ginsberg, Souter and Stephens. Unless there is a death (and I''m not wishing for it), the court will remain a 5-4 conservative edge, even with all new liberal justices. Oh, for a balanced oourt!