Comments on: Secret CIA Al Qaeda Plan Leaked In Report
Operation Aimed at Killing or Capturing Terrorist Group Operatives Hidden From Lawmakers
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- by Mortarman29 July 13, 2009 6:38 AM PDT "No. There is also the idea that you tell these idiot congressmen what the methods are, and they run out and start blabbing (which they are know to do!!)."
Oh, I know they do...I distinctly recall when Senator Shelby (R-Alabama) talking about our tapping of OBL's phone...even though Shelby's pet project over the years has been to have an "Official Secrets Act" akin to Britain's passed in America.
On the other hand, thousands have died as a result of murky intelligence whose validity was questionable from day one.
The intelligence community needs oversight - and depending upon a Cheney or a Bush - or one of the other members of PNAC - to provide it is foolhardy. - Reply to this comment
- The program remained so secret that no members of Congress were told about it, allegedly on orders of Vice President Dick Cheney. "
Tip of the iceburg of what documents we will uncover over time, this is only the beginning. - Reply to this comment
- A fully informed Congress almost always means a fully informed enemy. People working in the Pentagon, if they did what congressmen do with intel given to them, would go to jail. But, do you see the congressmen going to jail for leaking intelligence? Nope!
Rather than briefing Congress, it would be faster to just release the information to the New York Times and let them run it. Thanks to Congress, they will be running it soon enough anyway. - Reply to this comment
- by maistir July 13, 2009 5:55 AM PDT
A bad time to be attacking the CIA on a daily basis, because a weakened CIA will not be much help in the Afghan (and Pakistan) War.
but by attacking the CIA they are protecting Princess Pelosi which is the goal. - Reply to this comment
- The thing about the CIA:
Their mission is to identify threats to the U.S. of A., and where required and when duly authorized, to reduce the level of threat that the nation is exposed to.
Now, 9/11 happened - there is no avoiding that.
So, two possibilities exist:
1) The CIA failed miserably at identifying the threat or underestimated the nature of the threat
2) The CIA identified the threat correctly, but the Administration chose to ignore it for reasons of their own - which requires CIA complicity
Another reason for not telling Congress what you are doing is that secrecy prevents Congress from knowing when you fail.
We cannot afford not to know when the CIA fails - even if their methods are legal and so able to withstand the scrutiny of Congress.
The third, and by far the most abhorrent, reason for not keeping Congress informed is when a President is looking for a trigger event to launch an invasion of another sovereign nation...which requires that an attack sees some measure of success.
Now the latter is hopefully strictly the stuff of novelists and conspiracy theorists - but a fully-informed Congress provides an additional guarantee to the American People that it remains only a whacked-out theory. - Reply to this comment
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- A fully informed Congress almost always means a fully informed enemy. People working in the Pentagon, if they did what congressmen do with intel given to them, would go to jail. But, do you see the congressmen going to jail for leaking intelligence? Nope!
Rather than briefing Congress, it would be faster to just release the information to the New York Times and let them run it. Thanks to Congress, they will be running it soon enough anyway.
- Your opinion of congress has just what to do with the LAW Mortarman. Now IF, and that is a BIG if, you can operate your search engine, pull up the Law and tell me where Cheney is NOT in violation of the law. We need a Special Counsel here to find out just WHAT this Criminal was doing and why he was doing it. He was FAR outside the Constitution on what a VP is supposed to do.
- A fully informed Congress almost always means a fully informed enemy. People working in the Pentagon, if they did what congressmen do with intel given to them, would go to jail. But, do you see the congressmen going to jail for leaking intelligence? Nope!
- No. There is also the idea that you tell these idiot congressmen what the methods are, and they run out and start blabbing (which they are know to do!!). Then, some operative gets killed because of that...or operations compromised.
While I am a law and order kind of guy...and dont like the law broken...I also know that intelligence that is shared with Congress is shared with the world. - Reply to this comment
- What ??? The government actually trying to kill terrorists with a covert operation - how dare they, we are supposed to appease them, read them merranda rights, set them free....but don't dare to have a counter-terrorism operation, OH NO.....Liberals won't have that !!!
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- Well, that would be the very first thing he has done right then. Bravo for him!
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- I very much hate agreeing with Cheney. He was the very worst VP we have ever had.
Yet, I cannot fault him for keeping this operation from Congress. Congress is like sieve; it leaks a lot of classified data and no one is ever punished for doing that. This type of operation requires CIA agents to rish their lives. So, I agree with Cheney on this one. - Reply to this comment
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- Cheney the worst VP we have ever had? Obviously you have never heard of Joe Biden! The only reason Biden was tapped for the VP spot is that he makes BO look good.
- When it comes to the prosecution of war, I will put my faith in the U.S. military.
Extraordinary methods are not outside their realm of expertise. - Reply to this comment
- What, exactly, was there to be protected? That we intended to find al Qaeda wherever they are and destroy them?
That is no secret.
The methods, however, appear to be the sensitive area...and the only rational reason that is possible for them to be too "sensitive" to tell Congress is that they were extralegal.
Without law, we do not have democracy. - Reply to this comment
- A bad time to be attacking the CIA on a daily basis, because a weakened CIA will not be much help in the Afghan (and Pakistan) War.
What exactly was concealed? An operation to kill or capture al Qaida leaders? Who in the world did NOT know that we were out to do that? Does every Congressman need to know the details of every CIA operation? That's plain foolishness.
I'll suspend my judgment until I know what was concealed and how it was kept hidden. But I agree that outright lying to Congress needs to be prosecuted, if it really occurred. - Reply to this comment
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- When it comes to the prosecution of war, I will put my faith in the U.S. military.
Extraordinary methods are not outside their realm of expertise.
- When it comes to the prosecution of war, I will put my faith in the U.S. military.
- Could you imagine Ppoor ole Joe Biden with any real information. "opps, stuck my foot in my mouth AGAIN"
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- What, exactly, was there to be protected? That we intended to find al Qaeda wherever they are and destroy them?
That is no secret.
The methods, however, appear to be the sensitive area...and the only rational reason that is possible for them to be too "sensitive" to tell Congress is that they were extralegal.
Without law, we do not have democracy.
- No. There is also the idea that you tell these idiot congressmen what the methods are, and they run out and start blabbing (which they are know to do!!). Then, some operative gets killed because of that...or operations compromised.
While I am a law and order kind of guy...and dont like the law broken...I also know that intelligence that is shared with Congress is shared with the world.
- by Mortarman29 July 13, 2009 6:38 AM PDT "No. There is also the idea that you tell these idiot congressmen what the methods are, and they run out and start blabbing (which they are know to do!!)."
Oh, I know they do...I distinctly recall when Senator Shelby (R-Alabama) talking about our tapping of OBL's phone...even though Shelby's pet project over the years has been to have an "Official Secrets Act" akin to Britain's passed in America.
On the other hand, thousands have died as a result of murky intelligence whose validity was questionable from day one.
The intelligence community needs oversight - and depending upon a Cheney or a Bush - or one of the other members of PNAC - to provide it is foolhardy.
- So, IBStave...basically, we just need to release it to the public. Because there is NO WAY Congress will keep it secret. That is an impossibility!
- by Mortarman29 July 13, 2009 7:04 AM PDT: "So, IBStave...basically, we just need to release it to the public. Because there is NO WAY Congress will keep it secret. That is an impossibility!"
There are legal recourses available to deal with traitors.
Unfortunately, that last Administration set a pretty poor example of their use - and of the meaning of both treason and patriotism, but that does not have to be the case.
- Sorry. Name one congressman in the last 30 years that has been tried for treason for leaking intelligence. I'll help you out...there hasnt been any!! And there never will be any.
When I was on active duty, and we were in theater...and a congressman showed up (no matter what party) and was on a fact finding tour...they'd come in and start asking questions.
No way we fully answered those questions, especially on intelligence and security matters. We knew that we might as well go out and broadcast it over a bull horn!!
So, he/she would ask about a program, and they would get a truthful answer (we wouldnt lie). But they would never get the good stuff.
We would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
- by Mortarman29 July 13, 2009 7:13 AM PDT: "When I was on active duty, and we were in theater...and a congressman showed up (no matter what party) and was on a fact finding tour...they'd come in and start asking questions."
Hmmm...there are procedures in use for briefing Congresspeople that have nothing to do with field visits.
I recall assuring members of Congress that they did not have the need to know.
Big difference, between the field and the dance party that is Washington.
- No difference! When you tell Congress something, as you walk out the door of the briefing, start the stopwatch on how long it takes to show up in the news.
- At the end of the day, the LAW is the LAW and Cheney BROKE the LAW. All the excuses and blame in the world will NOT change that fact. Cheney had NOT Constitutional Authority to deny Congress ANYTHING let alone matters involving the CIA.. it's BLACK LETTER LAW folks!
- Precisely,sky. Cheney had no authority to order the CIA to fali to tell Congress about this nascent plan. Since he lacked that authority, it's irrelevant whether he issued the order or not. Why would the CIA follow an order from someone who wasn't authorized to give one. Any fault lies with the CIA.
The CIA is an independent agency, as you know.
- What, exactly, was there to be protected? That we intended to find al Qaeda wherever they are and destroy them?
- Ok. Don't just sit there. Time to turn this on Obama. It's all his doing. Heck, I hear he got the Washington Nationals manager fired!!!!
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- Let me guess! YOU two want TRICKLE DOWN Economics back and MORE of the Republican's? LOL You have GOT to be kidding! LOL Even for ditto heads! LOL But hey hang on, maybe you losers can get the party down to the Teens if you just keep it up!! LOL Now do you HONESTLY think people are going to buy the Republican LIE again? LOL We all know it by heart now so it's going to be a little difficult to sell it this time don't you think? LOL People who ACTUALLY thought the Republican Party and George Bush could balance the budget is saying our New Leader hasn't done anything? LOL WHO in their right minds believes ONE thing you folks say??
