Comments on: Health Care Reform Enters Critical Phase

As Obama Promotes His Plan, CBSNews.com Examines The Status Of The Health Care Debate In Washington

[onesword]

all of this debate can be simplied by just looking at principles......many people think they are owed something.........they think if they have diabetes SOMEBODY other than themselves should HAVE to pay for their medical bills......what makes you think a private company of any kind should have to pay for your bills if they dont want to? if they dont want to cover you....then it is your problem, not theirs......go lose some weight and maybe you wont have diabetes
Posted by joeybergas

This post states if you ever need major brain surgery you should have the money to cover it or die. In my opinion this is a very dumb and un-feeling post.

[rickwar]

all of this debate can be simplied by just looking at principles......many people think they are owed something.........they think if they have diabetes SOMEBODY other than themselves should HAVE to pay for their medical bills......what makes you think a private company of any kind should have to pay for your bills if they dont want to? if they dont want to cover you....then it is your problem, not theirs......go lose some weight and maybe you wont have diabetes
Posted by joeybergas at 10:42 AM : Jun 11, 2009

Your comment proves "You can't fix stupid" Your agument on Diabetes is beyond stupid, do some reading, while weight contributes, it's far from the only reason.

By the way educate yourself on insurance, it's not just based on YOU it's based on a pool of insureres in the same age brackets with additions or subtractions for some personal health issues. We ALL pay into and out of that pooled fund. In fact at our city (I'm on the city council and insurance group) 12% of the insureds use 83% of the payout. Our pool is determined by basically that 12%. Average coverage runs $1048 per person per month. So lets say you pay in for 12 months that's 12,576 dollars. You need at the end of the year a 300,000 procedure. Think that 1048 pays for all that by itself?

Get a clue.

[eclecticman1]

Our present system does not work. Continuing it would be just pure stupidity. Obama is doing a great job of letting the best ideas be looked at. We can not be stampeded by special interests, eg insurance companies, into maintaining a system where a medical procedure that saves a life is viewed as a loss. That is how insurance companies view it.

[jayfl11]

From what I've read about England's health insurance system, many people are denied certain treatments because of age, cost, etc.. On top of that, it is illegal to get it and pay for it yourself. So, if you are too old or the cost of treatment is too high, you are out of luck. I just don't trust the politicians with their lousy track records of only looking to gain power and reelection.

[jayfl11]

What everyone calls "health care crisis" is really "health insurance crisis" but if you don't call it health care there won't be the angst and worry that would allow the politicians to line their pockets with slush money. This is just a means to get costs down by government control. If you are old enough to remember the old socialist governments that controlled costs on food for example: it was fairly cheap but you had to wait days, weeks and even months on line to get any. That is what I fear in this case.

[joeybergas]

everyone always talks about diseases like diabetes, copd, heart disease, all these chronic SELF INFLICTED DISEASES, quit making yourselves sick, for your own benefit you wont have to screw around with healthcare!

[mcintoshlou]

Ever have an insurance company deny treatment your DOCTOR prescribed? I have. So have MILLIONS of Americans. These PROFITEERS deny you treatment to BOOST THEIR PROFIT.

If you think the current insurance company run RATIONING is great, then keep your plan. God help you if you ever REALLY NEED CARE, because your INSURANCE COMPANY will make you jump through hoops and STILL deny you coverage as you DIE IN YOUR BED.


RATIONING? It is what the INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE ALL ABOUT!

A "Health insurance company" denies a man treatment for COPD to INCREASE THEIR PROFITS. He paid his premiums every month. When it came time to collect it was, "sorry fella, go off and die". Now he's trying to raise $500k in donations- YES, IN THE USA. No appeal, just suck it up and DIE (after bankrupting your family and friends to pay your bills and fatten the BIG HEALTH and INSURANCE COMPANY PROFITS)

EVERY TIME the GOP cries that you will be DENIED COVERAGE by having the OPTION of a GOVERNMENT RUN insurance plan. THINK ABOUT THIS MAN.

There was another story just like this on our local news a couple weeks ago. A woman with BRAIN CANCER who was denied the ONLY treatment that would save her life because BLUE SHIELD RULES would not let her be treated because the number of tumors was "over the limit" that allowed treatment (a "limit" that her DOCTOR said was completely arbitrary and without medical basis). The DOCTOR said that all she got from BLUE SHIELD was the runaround, but no "OK". The patient will just have to drawl off and die. The insurance companies are all about MAKING A PROFIT. You can DIE as far as they are concerned (as long as your estate pays your back-bills of course).

There was another article yesterday about BLUE SHIELD revoking insurance RETROACTIVELY. You PAY your premiums, then when you get SICK, the INSURANCE COMPANY RETROACTIVELY REVOKES YOUR INSURANCE and makes you pay ALL of your OLD BILLS that they paid initially. "Buy insurance from the INSURANCE COMPANIES and DIE".

Private insurers DENY TREATMENT ALL OF THE TIME. Their interest is in PROFIT, NOT YOUR HEALTH. They want you to just suck it up and DIE if you get sick (after bankrupting your family and friends to pay your bills of course... gotta fatten those PROFITS you know!).

WE NEED A government insurance OPTION in the USA, so you will NOT be DENIED COVERAGE BY GREEDY and UNSCRUPULOUS INSURANCE COMPANIES.

GREAT POST DEFEND LIBERTY,

THE UNITED STATES NEEDS, FOR ITS OWN NATIONAL SECURITY,

UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE FOR ALL

AND WE NEED IT RIGHT NOW, TODAY

[joeybergas]

all of this debate can be simplied by just looking at principles......many people think they are owed something.........they think if they have diabetes SOMEBODY other than themselves should HAVE to pay for their medical bills......what makes you think a private company of any kind should have to pay for your bills if they dont want to? if they dont want to cover you....then it is your problem, not theirs......go lose some weight and maybe you wont have diabetes

[mcintoshlou]

That is not exactly true. In some states in fact the states that have seen the most economic growth are the states that have no or low income and property taxes. They have seen the highest population and corporate increase as opposed to the states that have high income and property taxes as in the Northeast and California are losing population and have bankrupt state budgets. The tax level in the US is far more of a range depending on where you live than anywhere in the world. So here you have a choice and many people are moving to places that have a lower tax burden.
Posted by CPelzar

WELL THIS IS NOT EXACTLY TRUE EITHER, IN FACT, A LOT OF WHAT

YOU POST IS FLATLY UNTRUE,

WHY DONT YOU STOP THE PROPAGANDA,

AMERICANS ARE WELL USED TO THE

KARL ROVE TACTICS BY NOW, AND WE DO NOT BELIEVE YOU.

[CPelzar]

Canada on average pays 40% income taxes. They have a GST or Valued added tax that pushes sales taxes in most provinces from 12% to almost 14%.


So you are actually paying for nationalized healthcare just another way. Nothing is for free.
Posted by CPelzar at 10:00 AM : Jun 11, 2009

Ever sit down and up our actual tax payments? Our tax on top of tax and taxes after we've been taxed? While you point is correct it actually does not prove much. All countries tax in slightly different ways. In the end it's surprising how close it actually comes.

Perhaps a better way of looking at it is what do you get returned in value for your taxes?
Posted by at 10:12 AM : Jun 11, 2009

That is not exactly true. In some states in fact the states that have seen the most economic growth are the states that have no or low income and property taxes. They have seen the highest population and corporate increase as opposed to the states that have high income and property taxes as in the Northeast and California are losing population and have bankrupt state budgets. The tax level in the US is far more of a range depending on where you live than anywhere in the world. So here you have a choice and many people are moving to places that have a lower tax burden.

[bajajohn1]

Health care reform will get done because the rule will require the vote of 51 Senators as opposed to 60. The insurance companies will begin their fear-mongering campaign in earnest this summer. Now they are claiming that competing with government is unfair. Perhaps if they were to cut the cost of premiums they could compete better.

[CPelzar]

CPelzer; A number that I did not see are the ever-increasing property taxes, i.e. the State of Texas. Property taxes in lieu of state income taxes keep rising. Even when the federal government cuts taxes, the local jurisidictions rush in to recap any savings realized by the cuts.
Posted by bajajohn1 at 10:09 AM : Jun 11, 2009

Household expense is in total including property taxes. Now not everyone pays property taxes, each state is different and some rent. But as a % of income Housing has increased more than twice as mush as every other expenditure including healthcare with the exception of Entertainment.

[tomadams99]

The critical phase is Obama and his handlers getting their hands on the subject.

[DefendLiberty]

Ever have an insurance company deny treatment your DOCTOR prescribed? I have. So have MILLIONS of Americans. These PROFITEERS deny you treatment to BOOST THEIR PROFIT.

If you think the current insurance company run RATIONING is great, then keep your plan. God help you if you ever REALLY NEED CARE, because your INSURANCE COMPANY will make you jump through hoops and STILL deny you coverage as you DIE IN YOUR BED.


RATIONING? It is what the INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE ALL ABOUT!

A "Health insurance company" denies a man treatment for COPD to INCREASE THEIR PROFITS. He paid his premiums every month. When it came time to collect it was, "sorry fella, go off and die". Now he's trying to raise $500k in donations- YES, IN THE USA. No appeal, just suck it up and DIE (after bankrupting your family and friends to pay your bills and fatten the BIG HEALTH and INSURANCE COMPANY PROFITS)

EVERY TIME the GOP cries that you will be DENIED COVERAGE by having the OPTION of a GOVERNMENT RUN insurance plan. THINK ABOUT THIS MAN.

There was another story just like this on our local news a couple weeks ago. A woman with BRAIN CANCER who was denied the ONLY treatment that would save her life because BLUE SHIELD RULES would not let her be treated because the number of tumors was "over the limit" that allowed treatment (a "limit" that her DOCTOR said was completely arbitrary and without medical basis). The DOCTOR said that all she got from BLUE SHIELD was the runaround, but no "OK". The patient will just have to drawl off and die. The insurance companies are all about MAKING A PROFIT. You can DIE as far as they are concerned (as long as your estate pays your back-bills of course).

There was another article yesterday about BLUE SHIELD revoking insurance RETROACTIVELY. You PAY your premiums, then when you get SICK, the INSURANCE COMPANY RETROACTIVELY REVOKES YOUR INSURANCE and makes you pay ALL of your OLD BILLS that they paid initially. "Buy insurance from the INSURANCE COMPANIES and DIE".

Private insurers DENY TREATMENT ALL OF THE TIME. Their interest is in PROFIT, NOT YOUR HEALTH. They want you to just suck it up and DIE if you get sick (after bankrupting your family and friends to pay your bills of course... gotta fatten those PROFITS you know!).

WE NEED A government insurance OPTION in the USA, so you will NOT be DENIED COVERAGE BY GREEDY and UNSCRUPULOUS INSURANCE COMPANIES.

[troutfishyman]

The flip side is all the uninsured Americans going to other countries for medical procedures, because they save so much money. Care to address that?
Posted by troutfishyman at 9:08 AM : Jun 11, 2009

So, what you're saying...essentially...is that you want sub-standard heath care for all? Why should someone who works hard and saves his pennies get top notch health care when the disenfranchised and lazy don't, right?
Posted by BitterSocialistsAreFunny


I think it is a false and defeatist assumption that it would be "sub-standard".

[rickwar]

Canada on average pays 40% income taxes. They have a GST or Valued added tax that pushes sales taxes in most provinces from 12% to almost 14%.


So you are actually paying for nationalized healthcare just another way. Nothing is for free.
Posted by CPelzar at 10:00 AM : Jun 11, 2009

Ever sit down and up our actual tax payments? Our tax on top of tax and taxes after we've been taxed? While you point is correct it actually does not prove much. All countries tax in slightly different ways. In the end it's surprising how close it actually comes.

Perhaps a better way of looking at it is what do you get returned in value for your taxes?

[bajajohn1]

CPelzer; A number that I did not see are the ever-increasing property taxes, i.e. the State of Texas. Property taxes in lieu of state income taxes keep rising. Even when the federal government cuts taxes, the local jurisidictions rush in to recap any savings realized by the cuts.

[bajajohn1]

Fearmongers continually cite the longer waits for specialists to attend them. But here in the states, it is not so much the wait, it is more about being treated as an assembly line patient. Go any doctor in the U.S. and they will sit with you about three minutes then rush off to see another patient.

[CPelzar]

cPelzer: got you, so basically your good numbers will reflect a different outflow under variable household expenses.
Posted by bajajohn1 at 10:01 AM : Jun 11, 2009

In total household expense. Gas is included in transportation. But remember income over these periods has also risen. The housing increase I thought was the most interesting., It reflects how much more money people on housing, Entertainment as well. These costs are of course discretionary to some degree, how much house or condo you buy and how much you entertain.

[rickwar]

You know, it's amazing how many folks comment on single payer or horror of horrors Socialized medicne without knowing anything about it other than the Republican AMA and insurance company fueled fear tactics.

My daughter lives in France, not a citizen ---covered has had excellent care in the lat 7 years at virtually no cost, including pregenancy.

My mother who is 83 and insurance and medicare would not pay for an "experimental" treatment for cancer returned to England (who by the way does not give up their citizenship) got the treatment for zero and has been cancer free for 5 years, here in the US she was given a year at most.

While traveling in Germany six years ago my wife slipped and broke her leg, total cost to us as visitors ZERO.

And we also have socialized medicine here, it's called Medicare and actually works pretty well with lower overhead costs than regular insurances. We also have Medicaid that we all pay for, and if you don't have insurance and go to the emergency room you get medical care. It's called socialazation folks, not matter how you silce or dice it. And actually it sort of works.

As to all the horror stories, I (and you) can come up with them for nearly anything. If it's soooooooo awful why do most countries in the world offer the coverage and keep it?

Insurance for my employees runs 110,000 a year and going up, that money could be used for higher wages, expansion, whatever.

The fact is the only folks that love the current system are the ones who have their insurance paid by someone else or pay a small fraction of the insurance themselves.

We've been doing the same thing over and over since the 50's and look where it has brought us. The highest costs with lower care and a mass of uninsured and unhealthy people.

I might add the same people who could do something keep getting paid off by the insurance companies

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

It's time for a change.