Comments on: Waterboarding More Frequent, Memos Suggest

Alleged Sept. 11 Mastermind Waterboarded 183 Times; Obama To Speak At CIA

[cattiej]

Obama is bordering on being a helper to some of our enemies. Is he or isn't he going to allow water-boarding of humans? The world is watching. I am ashamed that our government has stooped to being just like Hitler and his SS troops. The murdured and maimed millions of Jews and other people in Europe. All just to make a great society for themselves...NO, just to murder and maime and make money by taking everything from the people the put in the prisons and the gas chambers. I wonder if the American's who have tortured have actually killed anyone by waterboarding or some other form of torture. All torture does is make people say what you want to hear, not necessarily the truth. What does all the waterboarding teach our young people.? They can torture other people and it's o.k. to do so...after all Bush and Chaney o.k. it as did the military General's. How do these soldier's and CIA people look at themselves in the mirror each day? I am truly ashamed of who ever did this torture. I want to know who they are and where they are?? I want to know where the torture took place. I want Obama to tell the American people tomorrow that we will not torture our enemy's or any peoples anywhere. God is watching!

[searingtruth]

"I agree that Obama is not the be all and end all to our problems... but he's a dam sight better than the bozo that preceded him...."
wogerwabbit


As was Mussolini better than Hitler.

I'm not looking for a leader slightly less evil than the one before, I'm looking for an American, who is not evil at all.
ST


"The Republican and Democratic parties have delivered us into the hands of darkness."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[wogerwabbit]

I agree that Obama is not the be all and end all to our problems... but he's a dam sight better than the bozo that preceded him. Our right wing zealots have apparently been disappointed that Obama's not the Messiah they've made him out to be in their reverse propaganda since he hasn't erased the 8 year pile of sins from our memories. Hmm... how do you market proven losers as winners in the information age? ... a republican dilemma. Don't show us better ideas and shower us with inspirational messages of hope and a brighter future... freak us out with another code orange alert... scare the poop out of everybody with wacko predictions and dangle your skeleton Ann Coulter before us... Boo! If only you knew how pathetic you look and how embarrassed I am that I ever belonged to the freak of nature that is still called the republican party despite the obvious physical mutation it's gone through these last 30 years AG... After Gingrich... the man that I feel single handedly destroyed the republican party by selling it's soul to religionists. When the party became all exclusive instead of all inclusive it started its downward spiral... unperceptive at first, but as the incline got steeper the moderates bailed out and the bamboozeled right to lifers took up the slack and climbed on board for the ride of their lives... and missed the golden ring on that merry go round by 'this much' because they bought into the same BS we did (meaning moderate republicans)... duh? The republican party today is a parody of itself... a cruel joke played upon me by God Himself I fear... Twelve armed Hydra's like that coward drug abuser Rush Limbaugh who represents the cruelest and basest values our country has to offer the world now known as a spokesman for a party that sold it's soul to the false profits... how sad. How reveling of your souls. How damming for your party.

[stevex47]

Hey, I think that rowdy guy just ripped me a new one, ha.

Ouchy.

[searingtruth]

"We cannot fight an injustice that we find within ourselves, and that is why we so often find ourselves at the mercy of it."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[stevex47]

That's why it's the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

Our system is very merciful.

And they dont call it the criminal justice system for nothing, rather than a victim justice system.

[searingtruth]

"There were so many reasons that justice might fail that we chose not to pursue it."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[stevex47]

Obama is much smarter than me. I think he has chosen to not inflict an unnecessary wound to an already hurting America.

He could have chosen to make things reeeaaal ugly.

boosh and cheney totally wrecked the house. And their's lots of ugliness yet to be known. Now, we gotta repair everything.

[searingtruth]

"ST: Your perception of my position is flawed. there is no subversion to the constitution by defending the country that wrote it. I feel you should walk away from the stone wall you have encased yourself in as to not see the truth in others. I'm sorry but no lesson has been received by me from you. I respect your opinion but to say it is the total truth without correction is flawed. I'm sure there will be an accounting in future years of those responsible for any crimes committed, to give a blanket opinion and say all who took part should be tried is flawed. I have enjoyed this conversation and you do indeed make points worth discussing and I will think about what you've said. I am done for the evening and hope to talk to you again in the future."
EJStnns


Eloquently spoken fellow citizen, and goodness forbid that I wall myself from any truth I may not perceive, or ever believe I poses a total truth, deserved of no correction.

But as I have stated before, our Constitution is not that complicated.

And we have indeed been betrayed, by both Bush and Obama.

In fact, our last great hope is doing the same as our last great tyrant.

I look forward to future debates fellow citizen, and respect your passion for what you believe to be truth.
ST


"Most often the messenger we seek is within ourselves, and our saviors a mere reflection of what we have always known to be true. Do not abandon your heart my friend, and it will serve you well."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[stevex47]

boosh and cheney put Obama in the dificult position to deal with this mess and the Iraq mess and the economy mess.

What did they think he was going to do, sweep it under the rug? Nope, Obama's got to clean up all their trash.

[nocatnowaco]

Mr. President, if we talk about rules of laws, what makes us different, and to uphold our values, are you going to release all the memos and executing orders to raid the Waco's compound in Texas? As an American we, you would be more willing to as you said, want to know if the civil rights of the people who died in flame there have been violated. Millions of Chinese were killed during the Cultural Revolution; two millions Cambodians, about one forth of the country population, were killed under Khmer Rouge; and we have killed our own people too. I would like to see the " INNOCENTS" people civil rights are protected more than the rights of the terrorists who have killed thousands of 'INNOCENTS" Americans and "INNOCENTS" people around the world.

[EJStnns]

ST: Your perception of my position is flawed. there is no subversion to the constitution by defending the country that wrote it. I feel you should walk away from the stone wall you have encased yourself in as to not see the truth in others. I'm sorry but no lesson has been received by me from you. I respect your opinion but to say it is the total truth without correction is flawed. I'm sure there will be an accounting in future years of those responsible for any crimes committed, to give a blanket opinion and say all who took part should be tried is flawed. I have enjoyed this conversation and you do indeed make points worth discussing and I will think about what you've said. I am done for the evening and hope to talk to you again in the future.

[searingtruth]

"...I do not think that our founding fathers, if alive today, would have approved of torture, violations of the writ of Habeas Corpus, or blatant violations of the Geneva Convention. I also don't think they would have approved of the blatant lying done by the previous administration."
norcalruss


I agree fellow citizen. Nor do I think they would approve of the blatant lies, and defense of Bush's crimes, by the Obama administration.
ST


"We have failed in our duty to provide an example to the world of just government."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[searingtruth]

"ST. I am not in any way defending the subversion of the consitution. What I am defending is the need in a much different world to use the tactics neccesary to defend the american people....I will agree with you and say our founding fathers were correct. I also appreciate the time you've given in having this conversation. But please do not suggest that I believe in subverting the constitution."
EJStnns


Fellow citizen EJStnns, if you agree with our founding fathers then you will demand the trial, and if found guilty, just punishment of all those who have betrayed and subverted it.

For its rules are simple, and not difficult to understand.

And I do not find pleasure or comfort in disagreement with any of heartfelt belief that conflicts with my own, but I must speak the truth as I see it, and I have spoken with you as gently and honestly as possible, while upholding the truth that I myself perceive.

Subversion of our Constitution is indeed a harsh judgment, procured only by harsh language, but I have said it because I believe it to be the truth, and hopefully, a lesson.

For all of us fellow citizen.
ST


"Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should, therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. Their meaning is not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties which may make anything mean everything or nothing at pleasure."
Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823

A Future of the Brave

[EJStnns]

what about the blatant lying of the clinton administratin and the nixon administration and the kennedy administration and the reagan administration. see my point here?

[norcalruss]

So I ask only that you consider this.

Were our founding fathers correct? Remember, they collectively wrote our Constitution at a time when America barely existed, and could hardly defend ourselves against enemies far more powerful than we face today.

And yet, even at that time, they strove to provide a balance between fear, and justice.

Posted by searingtruth at 5:09 PM : Apr 20, 2009

+++++++++++++++++++++

I do not think that our founding fathers, if alive today, would have approved of torture, violations of the writ of Habeas Corpus, or blatant violations of the Geneva Convention. I also don?t think they would have approved of the blatant lying done by the previous administration.

[EJStnns]

ST. I am not in any way defending the subversion of the consitution. What I am defending is the need in a much different world to use the tactics neccesary to defend the american people. I am convinced, even though many disagree, that this nation is still well repspected around the globe in the governmental rooms that count the most, not in public displays of anger over the administration or thru newspapers and the like. Many friends or foes will use public outlets to voice their concerns but behind closed doors there is agreement under certain circimstances between us and our allies. The constitution is the most impoprtant piece of paper in history because it is alive and goes thru changes to correct mistakes. We abolished slavery although the founding fathers were slave owners, we gave women the right to vote, which at the time was the biggest injustice to an american citizen. I will agree with you and say our founding fathers were correct. I also appreciate the time you've given in having this conversation. But please do not suggest that I believe in subverting the constitution.

[norcalruss]

I am so disappointed that the current administration has decided not to seek do anything about the fact that the past administration violated every American principle we had tried to uphold until 2001.

We are willing to send former guards for the Nazi prison camps back to Europe for trial, but we are not willing to take similar actions to see to it our own American guards and/or interrigators do not face the same consequences of their actions.

And almost immediately after that announcement, we learn that waterboarding (torture) was used more often than previously believed.

Shame on us all for having allowed it. Shame on us all for not demanding that we close all foreign prisons and either bring prisoners to trial or let them go. Shame on us.
Posted by texbelle123 at 4:55 PM : Apr 20, 2009

++++++++++++++++

Good post. I feel the same way. How can the USA be considered the Leader of the Free World, if we acknowledge that torture took place but do NOTHING about it. Hopefully the World Court and others will try some of these war pigs and give the nation closure. President Obama seems to have totally capitulated on this. How sad.

[searingtruth]

"ST: I would never just take the government on faith. but that's what they seem to want. another item you are overlooking, is that those countries you mention imprison people for no reason, all the time. We are searching for the enemy and detaining individuals that we suspect are trying to attack us or kill innocents over seas..."
EJStnns


Fellow citizen, I perceive that you are sincere in your advocacy and defense of the subversion of our Constitution by both Bush and Obama, for what you genuinely fear are ominous and otherwise indestructible threats to our nation.

Which is why I have so consistently engaged you in debate this evening, when, as the regulars on this forum know, I rarely do with anyone.

So I ask only that you consider this.

Were our founding fathers correct? Remember, they collectively wrote our Constitution at a time when America barely existed, and could hardly defend ourselves against enemies far more powerful than we face today.

And yet, even at that time, they strove to provide a balance between fear, and justice.

And the balance they struck defended our nation not with great armies, but instead with great morality, and wisdom.

And given their success, I hardly think that you, or I, are qualified to second guess them.

So I choose to stand by and for them, and defend our Constitution, unto my death.
ST


"I join cordially in admiring and revering the Constitution of the United States, the result of the collected wisdom of our country. That wisdom has committed to us the important task of proving by example that a government, if organized in all its parts on the Representative principle unadulterated by the infusion of spurious elements, if founded, not in the fears & follies of man, but on his reason, on his sense of right, on the predominance of the social over his dissocial passions, may be so free as to restrain him in no moral right, and so firm as to protect him from every moral wrong."
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Amos Marsh, November 20, 1801

A Future of the Brave

[Trust_me_]

Apparently it?s real bad for you!
Kind of like a shampoo and a shave.