Comments on: Obama To Seek $634 Billion For Health Care

Administration Official Says Budget Blueprint Will Call Down Payment To Overhaul System

[endurorob]

And to say somehow that thru the fruits of our own labor that we didnt earn it or that someone else deserves it is the height of immorality. It is theft.
Posted by mortar29 at 4:28 AM : Feb 26, 2009


A more appropriate term would be socialism.

[skyk-2009]

Just think, in about a year, no terrorist will want to attack the USSA. We will have destroyed ourselves with our deficet spending.
Bush may have been slow about spending, he only raised the defict 4.87 trillion in 8 years, but the great Messiah will do so in just 2 years. At this rate, 1.75 trillion more, on top of 1.2 trillion, plus 2 trillion more for the banks, what the heck, pretty soon we will be talking about real money, not Monoply money.
Posted by platteman at 4:17 AM : Feb 26, 2009

This is what I mean! This is why I will never support another Conservative/Republican! Just ignore or pretend the problem doesn't exist and appeal to everyone's fear or greed! As I said the old Vet was right. If you go back and look at our problems in 1980 none of them have been solved and they have all gotten much larger. Now we can do as this person suggest, pretend they don't exist or we can do as another poster on here does and say it doesn't effect me so we shouldn't even try. We can do these things and in 10 years what are those problems going to look like? The problems are still there and are so expensive for one reason, we ignored them 30 years ago. Sure the cost is high now but rest assured that cost will never go down by pretending the problem doesn't exist or by being selfish!

[brianbwb-2009]

' We create wealth in this country. The pie is not static. Sheeesh!" Posted by mortar29

Since august 1972, America has not created wealth, it has simply redistributed it from the middle class to the top. The US dollar is worth 19% of what it was in 1972, but the money supply cannot keep pace, because as the Fed prints more currency it attaches interest, thus creating an unending cycle of debt, that can only be paid when more currency is printed, causing more debt.

The pie is indeed static, your elementary school civics teacher had it wrong even back then. Economics has always been a zero sum game wealth is not created, it is taken from somewhere else.

[endurorob]

Actually, there is a debate because that ascertain would be wrong. We have the best healthcare in the world, which is why Canadians come here (and others) for procedures! The issue we have is health coverage and costs. Want to fix that? Get government out of controlling healthcare. Government already runs 40% of healthcare in this country.

My wife is an emergency room RN. Believe me, we know what is going on in healthcare. The government screws up everything it touches!
Posted by mortar29 at 4:22 AM : Feb 26, 2009

Actually france has the best health care in the world. Ours at best rates mediocre.

[brianbwb-2009]

" Tell you what? You take yourself and your family to those places. When I want a guy doing heart surgery, or whatever, on me or a member of my family, I want the guy or gal that demands a high rate! Why? Because if he can get that high rate, he is going to have to be good!"

If he is not, you will be able to do nothing about it, because you'll be dead. It seems everyone but you knows that price is no guarantee of quality (remember that commercial, "have you driven a Ford lately?")

" We dont need government run healthcare...we need competition in healthcare. And in that...I go to see the best I can pay for because, well, why wouldnt I???" Posted by mortar29

You may not need it, but you are not everyone, some do need affordable service, and if the private sector will not provide it, then the government should.

But since you don't need it yourself, then don't use it, but we can do without your whining about denying those who do need it.

[brianbwb-2009]

" So? What do we need, a maximum wage in this country? Wait, maybe everyone gets paid the same thing, no matter what work they do? How about that? That would be really fair!!!"

Nope, we don't need a maximum, just a sliding scale of taxation that recirculates more cash back into the country.

"You know what you propose is Marxist, dont you?"

Call it whatever you want, the noe way has failed, and if it works, I don't care if you call it nihilism.

" You know the Founders would totally disagree with you, dont you?"

They are all dead, and we are no longer the agrarian society they knew. At any rate, I don't care if they disagree.

"You know that trying to punish achievers causes everything to stagnate because there is not incentive to go out and produce (which is why communism doesnt work...everyone is equal in result, which means everyone is eqully miserable!)."

There is stagnation now, you haven't checked the latest economic stats? You commit the neocon obfuscation of extrapolation ad absurduim, we can make any society we want, if we use elements from socialist ideas, that doesn't mean we have to adhere to the Marx model. what works for us we use, and neocon trickle down obviously isn't working.

" You dont pull people up, by pulling others down!" Posted by mortar29

The part of American history that we are closing the door on was just that, slavery, native genocide, this country was built on putting others down, but that dog don't hunt anymore.

[platteman]

Just think, in about a year, no terrorist will want to attack the USSA. We will have destroyed ourselves with our deficet spending.
Bush may have been slow about spending, he only raised the defict 4.87 trillion in 8 years, but the great Messiah will do so in just 2 years. At this rate, 1.75 trillion more, on top of 1.2 trillion, plus 2 trillion more for the banks, what the heck, pretty soon we will be talking about real money, not Monoply money.

[endurorob]

$780B here, $50B there, add in antoher $650B then of course the actual yearly budget. Where is this money going to come from? It is going to come to the point where people making $70K a year are going to be paying $30K in taxes.

[brianbwb-2009]

"So, quick...do something, even if it is wrong and will make things worse!!!!!"

Thatis funny, what Mr. Obama is proposing could have come from any Republican, use other people's money to pay for overcharged services, without instituting ways to curb the overcharging. Like I said, he is doing it the neos way, and still the neos are whining.

"...Oh, and things were far worse in 1980. All indicators were far worse (unemployment, inflation, etc). Added to that, income taxe rates were obscene!!" Posted by mortar29

You read numbers without understanding.

X percent of anything is larger when the total is larger, America has more people than it did in the 80s, and that means more hungry and angry people out there.

Your numbers don't show how you deal with a larger real number of people, fighting over a share of an economic pie that has been shrinking since August 19, 1972.

[skyk-2009]

I soured on the Republicans for not continuing the plan Reagan started in the early 80s. It is why I did not support either Bush!!

Sorry! Conservatism works everytime it is tried. The problem is, we havent tried it in a very long time!!!!!!!!!
Posted by mortar29 at 4:01 AM : Feb 26, 2009

Examples?? Take any problems we faced in 1980 and show any that have been solved. This is what I'm talking about. Instead of showing progress, those who defend the ideals, say things like this. I guess what you are saying is, we have seen no solutions because those who said they were conservative really weren't? That makes no sense.

[skyk-2009]

Any idea what happens when the government introduces price controls? Pick up a good book on economics and study this before trying to propose ideas that would only ruin healthcare and drive the best and the brightest to other endeavors!
Posted by mortar29 at 3:50 AM : Feb 26, 2009

There is no debate that we have one of the worst health care systems in the World. Our Neighbor is an RN at a local hospital and she tells us stories that would scare anyone about under staffing and excess hours for those who provide care so we have a major problem here. We must accept the reality that what we have been doing is not working and that all ideas must be given a chance to be discussed. Of all the mistakes we have made in the last thirty years or so is dismissing ideas or refusing to have open debate about options.

[skyk-2009]

Again, are you kidding me? You have the nerve to talk about our children? You have the nerve to talk about taking care of this now? We arent taking care of this now, we are borrowing money we dont have and telling our children they will have to pay it back!

So, we spend, spend, spend so we dont go down economically and insure our children a horrible economic status because they will be saddled with over $60 trillion in debt (and rising).

How about...we just pay it all ourselves and save our children having to pay for our mess?
Posted by mortar29 at 3:53 AM : Feb 26, 2009

You see? This is what I'm talking about. We can not just continue to attack those who want to fix things and have no solution ourselves. We can not just throw mud and hope things will fix themselves. We would need far less money and a much smaller gamble if we deal with those problems as the Vet said the other day, in the 80's. If you think the solution will cost less in Ten Years, I guess you're position makes sense. I, in looking at history, have come to the conclusion that it will not. We can do this.. I just know we can.

[brianbwb-2009]

"... That is fair? BS!"
Posted by mortar29

Yep, it is fair, what is left is still far greater than those who work even harder and longer.

[brianbwb-2009]

"... Any idea what happens when the government introduces price controls? Pick up a good book on economics and study this before trying to propose ideas that would only ruin healthcare and drive the best and the brightest to other endeavors!" Posted by mortar29

Even though Nixon did it successfully, I never referred to price controls.

My idea is to provide a lower cost alternative, if you still want to overpay private providers, go for it, for those who cannot afford to there should be a low cost alternative, and when even those who can afford it choose the lower cost alternative, the market will force those overpriced firms to either lower costs, or go the way of the dodo.

The free market is not free as long as collusionary practices eliminate alternatives.

Like I said, be glad Mr. Obama is still giving the neos the time of day, I certainly would not.

[skyk-2009]

Yes you have, Skyk. You just choose to ignore it and accept Obama's plan blindly. Good luck with that!
Posted by mortar29 at 3:47 AM : Feb 26, 2009

I'm sorry but I see nothing but the same lines we've seen for so long now. I see only that which all of us knows does not work. I have really soured on the Republican Party and Conservatives is their refusal to admit the failure of the plan they put forward in the 80's. The fact that something does not work doesn't make people or ideas wrong but the refusal to face that reality creates an environment were new and different ideas can not grow. I was so embarrassed Tuesday Night at the Response of the Republican Party, I turned off the set midway through the speech. The last think we, as a Nation, need to hear right now is what that Governor said.

[skyk-2009]

Are you kidding me? This guy wants to keep the fruits of his labor, to keep his property, and you call that greed?

What have we come to in this country? It is sad how far we have fallen!
Posted by mortar29 at 3:40 AM : Feb 26, 2009

Who wants to pay taxes? I do not know anyone, rich or poor, who wants to pay taxes but they are necessary. On line the other day a poster, a veteran, challenged those reading his post to go back and look at the problems we faced in 1980. He said we have the same problems today only they are much larger. I did just that, pulling up the sight of a Newspaper and he is absolutely right. To continue to put off problems or to ignore them only makes the cost of getting those problems fixed much higher. Conservatives and Republican's promised back then to fix those problems by "getting government off the back of Corporations" and "releasing Capitalism" on them. That solution has been a terrible failure and now those same problems are much larger, more complex and show no signs of going in the other direction. As I said in a previous post, I do not necessarily agree with all the New President wants to do and I find it a bit frightening but, that being said, I know that simply pretending they do not exist or trying to find a fellow citizen to blame for the problem is not going to solve it.

[brianbwb-2009]

" Are you kidding me? This guy wants to keep the fruits of his labor, to keep his property, and you call that greed? What have we come to in this country? It is sad how far we have fallen!
Posted by mortar29"

Yep, I call it greed.

The poster made money in America, drove on streets built with taxes, grew up watching tv, and using the telephone, the infrastructures of which are taxpayer funded, and everything he bought from a store was transported over taxpayer-funded roads and rails. He flies to visit sick relatives through taxpayer-funded airports, if he was educated, it was in taxpayer-funded schools, and the science classes taught information obtained with taxpayer money.

Then, after having received so many benefits of a taxpayer-funded system, now whines that he doesn't want to give any back by paying his air share of taxes. Yes, it is greed, pure and simple.

So very typical.

[skyk-2009]

JESUS CHRIST ! ! ! ! ! ! That's entirely to close to half of my check !

Couples making 250K a year, that's some BS why couldn't they have made that limit at or around 500K I think I'll ask for a pay cut just so I can avoid paying 40 percent taxes
Posted by dsr57 at 12:47 AM : Feb 26, 2009

I once supported many Conservatives and Conservative idea's. That will never happen again. In a time of crisis when our nation is in desperate condition and millions of our fellow citizens are on the verge of losing everything, to read a post like this just turns my stomach. What has become painfully clear to me in the last several months is that most Conservatives care none about anyone or anything except their own greed and selfish goals.

[skyk-2009]

Here we go again....another 634 billion dollars over ten years that we don't have. It's spend, spend, and spend. We're becoming the national version of the tax and spend liberal state of California. You know, 41 billion dollars and sinking but not sinking fast enough as far as I'm concerned. . I thought the liberals would have learned their lesson but I'm giving them credit for having smarts, which they don't.. Please don't blame Bush because I'm tired of giving you moron Democrats a history lesson. Case and point....Biden, Boxer, and Pelosi among others have been in Washington wasting your taxpayers money for years. Raising taxes for those making over 250,000 dollars.......why don't we ever hear of cutting the fraud out of the welfare system. That's easy.........the low life bottom feeders living off the welfare system are the Democratic voting base so the spineless Democrats aren't going to slice their own throats. Democrats, please don't look in the mirror because it's not a pretty picture.
Posted by dongo3 at 2:37 AM : Feb 26, 2009

It is obvious you hate the President the American People have picked to lead them through this crisis and it is obvious you hate the Representatives some American's have picked to represent them in our congress, that anyone can see. What I do not see and have not seen from you or any Republican/Conservative is a way out other than blind attacks on those who do have a plan. We have ignored and pushed problems to the side until there are so many and they have grown so large that we must deal with them now or just accept the decline for our future.

[skyk-2009]

$700B,$850B, now $634B.

Where is this money going?Down the toilet?

How OBAMA wants to zero our deficit spend crazily?
Posted by bagdadshere6 at 3:02 AM : Feb 26, 2009

What do you suggest we do? When you put things off, when you ignore them for so long this happens. If we do not act now you have to wonder what our children will be faced with. This President has a plan and a vision. Maybe I don't agree with it all and maybe it is a bit frightening but the reality is simple. We either do this now or we sink into Third World status.