Comments on: Analysis: Spinning The Wheels In Dem Race

CBSNews.com's Vaughn Ververs Says Pa. Primary Clarifies Nothing In Clinton-Obama Battle

[taddles-2009]

"Could the Democratic party be any more incompetent?

Posted by ojama at 10:19 AM : Apr 23, 2008"


Incompetent? you mean by allowing the American people to actually choose their nominee?

Allowing every state to get their say in is not incompetent, it''s historic. When was the last time a candidate wasn''t known by the end of March? when was the last time we actually had a serious throw-down for the nomination? This is real democracy at it''s gritty best.

[repdemapart]

HOPE WILL NOT PAY YOUR MORTGAGE ...

HOPE WILL NOT PAY YOUR GAS ....

HOPE WILL NOT CURE YOUR CANCER ...

HOPE WILL NAT MAKE YOU WIN IN NOVEMBER ...

NOBAMA IS GIVING Y''ALL FALSE-HOPE.

[taddles-2009]

"When will the Dems learn? Probably, never.

Posted by joe1022joe at 09:29 AM : Apr 23, 2008"


The fight against McCain hasn''t even started yet, I think your declarations about the inevitability of this race are very premature. One thing to be learned about the history of American politics, every race is different. Making prognostications based on any previous race is a fools errand.

[bookwerm314]

Many of the folks in PA, same as in the rest of the nation, have their minds made up, and no amount of money, ads or begging will change that significantly. PA is a bit backwards, lots of folks in the rural, move slow, trust Clinton, don''t like new things.
If you want proof that folks make their minds up based on little research or input.. just think.. 4 yrs ago, somehow, a majority of Americans wanted 4 more yrs of Bush. That was something I never would have thought possible, knew scant people who could tolerate him.. anyone who reads a newspaper, sees the news, lives a real life, all knew and know how incredibly incompetent Bush is as Prez.... well, these are the same kind of people, but they support Clinton instead..

[taddles-2009]

"It could be that the only way the GOP could hang on to the white house was divide the vote by tempting and securing a Dem VP...

Posted by b-easy63 at 09:43 AM : Apr 23, 2008"


I had not thought of this before. It''s obvious that McCain is waiting to see what the outcome will be but I was thinking he was doing so simply to determine what running mate would best counter the Dems strong points.

I''m not sure I buy the idea of either Dem candidate crossing over to be the Rep VP, that would be a really desperate move and could very easily be a career ender.

[realpatriot1]

b-easy63,

I don''t see that happening and I don''t see a Democratic dream ticket either.

If Hillary does not find a way to legitimately carry the popular vote and/or pledged delegates and the garners the nomination by working the system Obam isn''t going to turn around and belie everything he stands for by teaming up with Mccain.

Hillary, I believe, already has her sights on 2012 and won''t want to become part of a McCain administration either. She wants to sabotage Obama because she knows she''s lost this year and she''ll be history by 2016 when whoever Obama''s VP choice is becomes the Democratic heir-apparent.

She needs the Democrats to lose this year to make it back to the White House herself.

[texanforlogi]

For 4 years now I have been baffled over who was dumb and blind enough to vote for Bush for a second term. The Pennsylvania primary has shed some light on the subject--it was the weak-kneed, yellow-bellied cowards! Run a vicious, misleading, and fearful attack ad and, although they may not like you, you''ll scare them into voting for you. How sad for our country!

[b-easy63]

Another observation: McCain has not chosen a running mate yet. He appears to be waiting to see who will be the Dem nominee. due to the rancour but also the need to "reach across the aisle" the GOP plan may be to offer the job to who ever loses the Dem nomination. If they accept, it would split the votes and pull many supporters who are really voting for a person and not for the Dem party. If this happens (and I actually thought this was a long shot plan back in February) the Dem who turns GOP VP will tell themselves and their supporters that they did it for the good of the country and crossing those partisan lines. The supporters may buy this. Because they will say their choice is a heartbeat away. This is already feasible.

Consider how Obama and Clinton both talk about McCain and also consider how cosy both are getting with the right. It could be that the only way the GOP could hang on to the white house was divide the vote by tempting and securing a Dem VP --now, with Clinton''s antics--they have more than one option for securing the win.

[joe1022joe]

See my earlier comment. Every time the liberal wing of the Democratic Party takes control, the Dems get the you-know-what dicked out of them in the general election. When will the Dems learn? Probably, never. The active force of the Democratic Party is the wacko left - the San Francisco, Marin County (CA), West Los Angeles (read Hollywood), Manhattan chablis and brie crowd. With these folks at the forefront of the Dems, they can''t win. This, ladies and gentlemen, is axiomatic.

[b-easy63]

Of course, I forgot to mention one other hope of the Dems and it might work seeing as McCain is showing signs of dementia...if McCain has a meltdown, the Dems could still pull this off--but with Hillary the chances are slim to none and with Obama--slim--the GOP will just set the Dems against each other and prove to the Independents that they are more like Obama, than Obama or Hillary are.

[b-easy63]

our predictions are misguided, weak and wrong.
Sorry but thanks for playin! Maybe next time :)

Posted by jh6379 at 09:14 AM : Apr 23, 2008


My predictions are ugly--but they are not wrong. In fact since 1982, I have never been wrong about any political race I prognosticated. Not how it would turn out, not how the game would be played. You will see. Watch what happens in NOv. Obama is the DNC''s only hope and due to Hillary, even that hope is slim.

[b-easy63]

I doubt the Dems will lose Congress, but they appear poised to lose the White HOuse. They will control Congress by slim margins, because while people may go GOP for the President, the actions of Bush almost guarantee we will not give the GOP the majority in Congress any time soon.

[pepperwood2]

You have to remember that Hillary did nothing to win in Penna, except to show up. It should come as little surprise that the Old Guard Rendell, Clinton polictics dominate the rather inflexible DEMO population of Penna. The Status Quo prejudice polictics is dominant.

I''''ve grown up with here in Penna. and sad to say that there is a rather intolerant side to the Demo Party to real change & acceptance that is needed. To the Rendell, Clinton crowd, they thrive on this common knowledge, and is little wonder that Hillary came into Pa. with a 30 point lead and expected to win by at least 25 points.

Senator Obama refused to give up on the People. With the mocking, cackling old show Clintons in the background he gave his message of Hope, Change and the need for this Country to get past the negative polictics and get back to doing the work of the People. Yes, He Cares!

AS for Hillary, Wheeeeeee this is fun! I''''m just warming up. 110,000,000 year is MY money. Show me more of YOUR money. CACKLE CACKLE CACKLE.... Sooooo SAD!

[b-easy63]

Neither Obama or Clinton can win in November, each for his/her own fatal reasons. These factors (and we''''re all aware of what they are) cannot be fixed or turned around. The Democratic Party regularly goes into suicide mode -- 1952 and 1956 with Stephenson. Remember the Democratic Convention of 1968? Then McGovern in 1972. Next the Ted Kennedy challange to Carter as sitting President in 1980. Then Dukakis. The Dems simply do not not have a grasp of what makes the majority of American voters tick. This is another one of those years. Obama will lose 45 states and the Dems will lose control of the Senate and possibly the House, too.

Posted by joe1022joe at 09:03 AM : Apr 23, 2008


Unfortunately, you are probably right. The scenario gets even worse with Hillary. She might end up like Ferraro and Dukakis, winning all of 14 electoral votes.

Her being a woman will not be the factor--it will be her being herself. She has done the GOP dirty work so well, but what she never realized is that it will be used to show her up for what she is...if she is the nominee and the Independents will run to McCain . Even if all Dems vote for Hillary, 36% does not and cannot trump the other 64% that will leave in droves once the GOP attack machine connects all the ugly dots. Lord help HIllary if she was stupid enough to say something against the Dems or promise something to the GOP when she courted the vast right wing vote. Because they will have it on tape and they will use it.

[b-easy63]

Even if Hillary is not the nominee, the trap will work the same. McCain will not have to go neg on Obama, just replay Hillary''s campaign and watch HRC supporters flock to him while never having to do more than repeat her words. The best Rovian tactic is to let the other teams strength defeat themselves. Remember when this all happens--you heard it all here first.

it could not have happened if Dems would ever learn the art of manipulation and realize when they are being played. Face it, under no circumstances should any Dem ever trust GOP propaganda pundits working in their favor--it is not true support--it is a set up.

[b-easy63]

If HRC somehow is the nominee, this will all happen. And when it does the Democrats will have fallen for the biggest okie doke of all time. Hillary will have her own words come back home to roost. Her lies, her ties, her inexperience compared to McCAin, her strategy her smears....
McCain will position himself as the natural recipient of former Obama supporters---and many Independents will go to him and some Obama supporters may also go as punishment to HRC and her tactics. He will talk about how unfair and ugly the DNC elections were and how ultimately the voters did not get to make their choice--and the message will resonate, then he''ll bring up the honesty factor. When Hillary talks about moving the troops out--McCain will point out how much she flip flops and how she said she would and would not all within the same year. it will be the trust issue--and HIllary will lose (most likely) and when it is over--most Dems except her supporters, and most Independents and most Republicans will all agree that it was Hillary''s own fault and that the Democrats were fools. The plan is going along nicely and the desire of HRC supporters, the strategic weakness of most dems and HIllary''s own drive will mean they remain blind until the trap is truly sprung.

[joe1022joe]

Neither Obama or Clinton can win in November, each for his/her own fatal reasons. These factors (and we''re all aware of what they are) cannot be fixed or turned around. The Democratic Party regularly goes into suicide mode -- 1952 and 1956 with Stephenson. Remember the Democratic Convention of 1968? Then McGovern in 1972. Next the Ted Kennedy challange to Carter as sitting President in 1980. Then Dukakis. The Dems simply do not not have a grasp of what makes the majority of American voters tick. This is another one of those years. Obama will lose 45 states and the Dems will lose control of the Senate and possibly the House, too.

[watithink]

Jimmy Carter is possibly our best X president; I like Jimmy Carter, I voted for Jimmy Carter. Mr. Obama reminds me of Jimmy Carter. He talks about improving just about everything, he talks about extracting us for a bad overseas position. I like Jimmy Carter . . . Jimmy Carter was one of the most ineffective Presidents we have ever had! We can''t afford to train another good X President. I won''t be voting for Mr. Obama.

[b-easy63]

OBAMA scares many in the GOP due to his majority of support within the Independents. The Dems are 36% of the electorate, the GOP is 34%. They have to get their winning numbers from either Independents or defectors. For McCain, that means Hillary''s supporters must really come through for him if Obama is the nominee. But if Clinton is the nominee, he does not need any Dems, he will just try to get the Independents who may not like the GOP right now but most hate Hillary.

He will underline that Hillary is just as bad as he is--but only HE is more honest about it and he does not come with Bill clinton attached. Then he''ll point out how he ran his primary and even applauded and defended Obama and point out what Hillary did. Hillary will be pilloried--and the group to lose is the one that Obama holds....Independents and new voters. If you must vote for a potential devil, better the one who admits they are the devil, than the one who pretends she is not but all her actions say she surely is. It will be the trust issue--and it could very well sink HRC and Bill.

[b-easy63]

There is a huge private joke--that by allowing Hillary to continue and inject race and go very negative--the GOP does not have to. By their very actions, HIllary and Hillary supporters show how they can be manipulated by the right and how again, Dems will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and like in 2000 and 2004 will appear shell shocked when they lose massively. It''s all be set up under their noses and they are too blind and ruled by emotion to see most of this.. And it will work. Because the one group Hillary would need to win, Hates her with a capital H--that is most of Independents. Them coupled with even 10% of the Dems would mean a landslide unless many Republicans run to Hillary. That will never happen. Bill''s existence will see to that. The love affair of Hillary and the right will stop the minute she gets the nomination and to attack her--all they have to do is rerun her campaign from smears to debt to her lies to her citing her and McCain as the best of the best--and he REALLY has the foreign policy experience. As for the economy--perhaps he''ll pull a page from Obama''s book and quip that he can always tap Clinton or Obama for advice in that arena. Good plan, isn''t it?