Comments on: Iraq Vet: U.S. Can't Afford McCain Victory

Army Ranger Blasts GOP Candidate's Iraq War Stance, Says McCain Would Ignore Other Threats

[iceman_1960]

"iceman
I believe a political agenda is held by someoen seeking to be elected to public office, not someone who has a different opinion than mine. You don''''t have a political agenda , do you ?"
- Posted by ranger1948 at 10:18 AM : Mar 09, 2008
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I am a member of the Cobra Party.

Our political agenda is "Don"t Tread On Me."

[ranger1948]

iceman
I believe a political agenda is held by someoen seeking to be elected to public office, not someone who has a different opinion than mine. You don''t have a political agenda , do you ?

[ranger1948]

iceman
I love all animals. I do not want tohave pets because i like to travel and think boarding is a cruel punishment to something you love. We have a lot of cobra''s here in Thailand and a lot of people are bitten and die from the bites each year. However i also respect the snakes and will not kill them unless it is to save a human life. I was bitten on the hand two weeks ago by a small cobra who had gotten into my kitchen. Fortunately he gave me what is known as a dry bite and did not inject any poison. The only ill effect i had was the nerves in my hand are very tender and painful to touch. I do not blame the snake. If you give them space they will leave you alone.

[iceman_1960]

RE: Post by ranger1948 at 10:08 AM : Mar 09, 2008

John McCain wrote that back in 2005.

His "political agenda" was on display the other day, when he backed off from that honorable position.

But I know you mean by "political agenda" -- that"s what any POW who disagrees with you, obviously has.

[ranger1948]

Iceman
Spoken like a true politician, but wouldn''t you rather have an opinion from a former pow that does not have a political agenda.

[iceman_1960]

RE: "The Germans used the Soviet Union"s failure to sign the Geneva Convention, as a blank check to brutalize Russian POWs and the Russian people in WW2."
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Here"s the actual order (and I"m not comparing anybody here to Hitler):

Hitler to his Generals: "Lets take the gloves off for this one."

"The war against Russia cannot be fought in knightly fashion. The struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be waged with unprecedented, unmerciful, and unrelenting hardness. All officers will have to get rid of any old fashioned ideas they may have. I realize that the necessity for conducting such warfare is beyond the comprehension of you generals, but I must insist that my orders be followed without complaint. The commissars hold views directly opposite to those of National Socialism. Hence these commissars must be eliminated. Any German soldier who breaks international law will be pardoned. Russia did not take part in the Hague Convention and, therefore, has no rights under it."

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-commissar.htm

[iceman_1960]

"iceman
I would suggest you contact a former POW and ask him..."
- Posted by ranger1948 at 09:47 AM : Mar 09, 2008
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OK.

Here"s what he said:

"Our commitment to basic humanitarian values affects - in part - the willingness of other nations to do the same. Mistreatment of enemy prisoners endangers our own troops who might someday be held captive. While some enemies, and Al Qaeda surely, will never be bound by the principle of reciprocity, we should have concern for those Americans captured by more traditional enemies, if not in this war then in the next. Until about 1970, North Vietnam ignored its obligations not to mistreat the Americans they held prisoner, claiming that we were engaged in an unlawful war against them and thus not entitled to the protections of the Geneva Conventions. But when their abuses became widely known and incited unfavorable international attention, they substantially decreased their mistreatment of us. Again, Al Qaeda will never be influenced by international sensibilities or open to moral suasion. If ever the term "sociopath" applied to anyone, it applies to them. But I doubt they will be the last enemy America will fight, and we should not undermine today our defense of international prohibitions against torture and inhumane treatment of prisoners of war that we will need to rely on in the future."
- John McCain (before his recent flipflop)

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/111305Y.shtml

[ranger1948]

iceman
Do you think our government has no responsibility when committing our troops to make sure the situation is one where we are protected by the Geneva Protection. I think we owe our troops at least that much.

[iceman_1960]

"iceman
Again a history lesson. Vietnam was not a declared war so the communists did not recognize the Geneva convention. They tortured our prisoners on a regular basis. When captured we were classified as war criminals by the communists."
- Posted by ranger1948 at 09:42 AM : Mar 09, 2008
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I am aware of that.

The Japanese didn"t follow that either in WW2, a declared war.

Americans have an ethical and morally calling to be above that kind of behavior, whether its a declared war or not, or whether of not the other side follows the Geneva Convention.

Another history lesson:

The Germans used the Soviet Union"s failure to sign the Geneva Convention, as a blank check to brutalize Russian POWs and the Russian people in WW2. That was not accepted as a legitimate excuse by the civilized world after the war, and the guilt were prosecuted and hanged afterwards.

[ranger1948]

iceman
I would suggest you contact a former POW and ask him if he thought the actions by my group increased their being tortured. I was assigned to MACV/SOG

[ranger1948]

iceman
As much as i disagree with you i am not mad at you and do not dislike you. I am always open to a healthy discussion with difference of opinions. I truly wish only the best for you, afterall that is what we were supposed to be fighting for, the American way of life, the American dream.

[ranger1948]

iceman
Again a history lesson. Vietnam was not a declared war so the communists did not recognize the Geneva convention. They tortured our prisoners on a regular basis. When captured we were classified as war criminals by the communists.

[ranger1948]

mcdazz
I think Powell feared white extremist groups would assianate him if he were elected president. I also think pbama should be thinking about this also. Someone with my background could take him out from three miles away. Secret service can''t give thay much protection. Fortunately i do not believe in killing anymore so am not a threat to anyone unless they are threatening my family or an innocent person on the streets. I would hope i could handle the situation without having to kill anyone. As for my daughter she has mixed feelings. Seeing that some good is being done in Baghdad she thinks they should stay. Her unit is assigned to train military police formthe Iraqui''s. She says the Iraqui''s don''t like us, won''t listen and refuse to learn so they are accomplishing nothing. She doesn''t think her unit should be there since they are not accomplishing their mission.She is a professional soldier and volunteered for Iraq so she believes in following orders

[iceman_1960]

"iceman
If torture saves American lives i would do it again.
I served with honor and am decorated for my actions."
- Posted by ranger1948 at 09:20 AM : Mar 09, 2008
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There is no doubt that if we reduced the speed limit to 20 mph it would save American lives. That by itself is not a good enough reason to do it.

Besides, that"s begging the question, since the use of torture might cause more deaths than the lives it saves, by increasing the hatred and determination of the enemy, and their desire for spectacular retaliation and revenge.

You would be morally responsible if the torture of American POWs was increased as a result.

[iceman_1960]

"Actually my experiences left me a very meoolw person."
- ranger1948

I like cats too. I have two of them.

I can"t stay angry at a fellow cat-lover too long.

[iceman_1960]

"How would you have reacted to a village when you found they had hidden communist soldiers and supplies after you had helped them and then they attacked your unit, killing fellow Americans."
- ranger1948
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I like to think I wouldn"t have killed the children and babies to punish their elders.

It"s like torture -- as I said before, a slippery slope.

"Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson, Jr., a 24-year-old helicopter pilot from an aero-scout team, witnessed a large number of dead and dying civilians as he began flying over the village - all of them infants, children, women and old men, with no signs of draft-age men or weapons anywhere...

"He fired at the baby with a .45. He missed. We all laughed. He got up three or four feet closer and missed again. We laughed. Then he got up right on top and plugged him."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai

[ranger1948]

iceman
If torture saves American lives i would do it again.
I served with honor and am decorated for my actions.
Actually my experiences left me a very meoolw person. I would rather talk my way thru a situation than have to fight. I have no desire to hurt anyone ever again.
Your right John Rambo wouldn''t be qualified to write laws. He was a supply clerk killed in Vietnam. The chose his name for the movie because it had a certain zing to it. We never had anyone like rambo on our team. It only looks good in the movies.

ranger1948 wrote:

"mcdazz
I think Powell felt that if he ran he would be killed that is why he backed away from running
I just talked to my daughter who is serving in Iraq. I asked her how the soldiers felt about being there. She said the ones in Baghdad seem to be accomplishing some good so she can see them being there. She is with a unit trying to train Iraqi police. She says they don''''t want us there and refuse to learn so she feels her unit being there is worthless. And yes she has walked the walk, she hads been in combat so can talk the talk."

As a matter of interest, who did Powell feel threatened by?

While I don''t want to believe that something like that could still happen - at the same time, I don''t disbelieve it either.

I think it''s an all too real threat - sadly.

In regards to your daughter, I have heard and read similar comments from others who have served in Iraq.

While I do believe that we accomplish some good over there, our actions and policies towards the Iraqis have damaged and overtaken the good that we do.

What are your daughters thoughts about a withdrawal from Iraq - is she for it or against it?

[iceman_1960]

RE: "Calley was a scapegoat, he followed orders"

[He should have been born earlier and joined the German army. They liked discipline and obedience.]

RE: "Only a fool who has never served would answer like you do."
- Posted by ranger1948 at 09:06 AM : Mar 09, 2008

Most who served, served honorably, without torturing and abusing prisoners.

But maybe your experiences have left you bitter and jaundiced and unqualified to offer an objective opinion.

Lets not have John Rambo rewriting our laws or our Constitution, because frankly he isn"t qualified.

[ranger1948]

iceman
I agree, if we lived in a perfect world we could get away without torture. I came back from the war against war. I don''t want to hurt or kill anyone again. I even gave up hunting when i came back. I accepted the Budhist faith because they believe in living in harmony with all people and all living things. I like this way of thinking. I also respect everyones right to a different opinion. I did what i had to do in the war. I was on selected missions and followed orders. I have seen every horror of war, but i think i came back a better person for it.