Comments on: Analysis: Bill Clinton's Lost Legacy

CBSNews.com's Vaughn Ververs: Inflammatory Remarks Tarnish Ex-President's Reputation

[b-easy63]

Who do you people think you are telling a husband how to treat his wife?


----------------------------------
----------------------------------------
------

Posted by thebigleagu1 at 11

We are the people who will decide whether that man and his wife get another shot at representing this country in the White House. When we have a war monger for a leader, we are viewed as war mongers, when we have a liar as a leader, we are viewed as liars, when we have a good leader, we are viewed as a good country and when we have an abusive man or a cheater as a leader, we are viewed as a cheating country.

If Clinton wants all the autonomy you thinks he should have as a husband-then be JUST a husband and NOT our public servant, representing us to the world by his words, thoughts and deeds.

[alanrobisch]

Who do you people think you are telling a husband how to treat his wife?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by thebigleagu1 at 11

Lets see there are laws about certain actions and there are normal sensible ways of dealing with each other which include being faithful to your spouse. This is very basic to a good marriage yet it seems bill couldn;t handle this.

[b-easy63]

The mistake was not just in the words--but in the messenger and in the context all said something else to many black people. It is funny, from Cinn to Texas blacks who do not even know each other--give me the same analysis. They see Johnson and Young as turncoats who hate their own people--and Clinton as their master--but it is not just a black/white thing. They see Clinton as finally showing his true colors and he appears as racist to them as any Republican. They thought Democrats saw them as people--but they realize at least Hilary and Bill see them as a color group not as people, so now, across the board--there will be a reassessment. How far that goes, depends on what else Hilary and Bill do.

[b-easy63]

I know. They are supposed to be "leaders" but who voted them in? A black leader who thinks he is better than the masses and has nothing to do with them, now shows up as a Clinton buddy and decides to ridicule another black who seems down to earth--what is the reaction? Embrace the down to earth brother (who cares if his mom is white, over half of all blacks in America are mixed with something anyway) and reject the "bougie black as a fake, and a stooge for white people... When Young said Obama was shucking and jiving, he also implied anyone who agreed with anything Obama said was a stooge, dupe, or patsy--led around by the nose. Most blacks said, they considered the source. A bougie black who hung around other bougie blacks and now shows up with a rich white man and tells them not to listen to the other black man (who is also rich, but does not carry it around like he is special, like Young and others do) to many the words from YOung, meant they SHOULD listen to the new black. They perceived Young as a traitor, a sell out--so when he said don''t, that meant do--they smelled a rat.

[alanrobisch]

Clinton may have been around and dealt with blacks a long time. He may have felt he was as close to being one with them as could be, so he may have felt his criticisms would be no different than those expressed by the other blacks on his wife''''s staffs--but here is another problem--there are rules for criticizing, rules for breaching and DIFFERENT rules for when outsiders do it--there are even more different rules for doing all of this in public. next


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by b-easy63 at 11:32 AM : Jan 28, 2008
+ report abuse

Yup you are right. I have a job where I meet people from around the world and what I most like to do is find out about there culture and lives. Unfortunately language is usually a problem.

[b-easy63]

Everything in context. I can say that every black person I spoke with about the SC situation think Clinton did an unforgiveable thing: like most cultures--there is a huge thing about destroying or saving face--when Clinton began to minimize or question Obama BUT put it in a racial context (by mentioning his color and the color of his primary supporters) everything was read to be commentary on both Obama and black people in general. So when comments were made about a fairy tale--it was taken to mean --any black who thought they could be President were living in a fairy tale. When the comments were made about Obama "shucking and jiving and trying to be more black--they came from "bourgoisie blacks" this means people with black skin who have so much money they are removed from their black roots and have no clue. In other words, the Clintons have as some of their advisors, people the avg black does not respect or recognize.

[b-easy63]

Randal says he has minorities that don''t mind demeaning jokes about their race--I posit, they DO mind--they just don''t let it show. I base it on the many discussions on just this pet peeve about white people (especially white men) this pet peeve has been shared with me by Hispanics, Blacks, Koreans, Chinese, ME, Pakistani, Indians, Malaysians, Native Americans, etc.

When I point out we are all just trying to learn about each other--they say, the way you learn best is by observation --for each culture, there is a way to ask questions and a way to approach resolution--when that is breached--you get dissension, mistrust and closed minds and hearts.
Clinton may have been around and dealt with blacks a long time. He may have felt he was as close to being one with them as could be, so he may have felt his criticisms would be no different than those expressed by the other blacks on his wife''s staffs--but here is another problem--there are rules for criticizing, rules for breaching and DIFFERENT rules for when outsiders do it--there are even more different rules for doing all of this in public. next

[b-easy63]

I think we all suspect this--but here is FINALLY my point: treat people like people. don''t do anything to anyone that you don''t want done to you or to your kids. Remember everyone is an individual and NOT an ambassador or spokesperson for their race . Blacks especially, hate to be asked about the problems in their race. Why? Because it is not their problem, specifically and they don''t know either. They hate that they are often lumped all together.

We asked a black girl once why so many of her race were having babies and getting on welfare. She said she would answer that question, after we answered why so many white men raped and killed children. We were shocked-- and said, how could we know that? then she said--If you don''t think you can answer for what another person did in your race--then don''t ask me questions about what somebody besides me did in my race. I don''t have children. I''m not on welfare--I don''t know. She has a point. Too often, we see a police show--and whatever we see--we apply to as many as we think we can get away with.

[b-easy63]

The thing is--they all had a lot of stories and many of them had white girl/boy friends or spouses. My point is --you can''t know a people not really--if they don''t let you in, and they don''t let in people they do not trust.

There are always levels to relationships. Cursory, superficial, friendly, deep, deeper, intimate and not necessarily in that order. For various races and groups, there is a level that other races or cultures can enter--and no matter how intimate, they are allowed no further. It does not matter if you have kids with them or not. I am not saying that all races are like this--but in the past 30 years--I have still had discussions with various groups and it is still the same--only certain levels and how indepth you end up depends on how your race and you are perceived. I know women married to minority men who have no real clue what their husband or their family thinks of them. The face they show their spouse for years, is not the face they show when they are with people they think they can show more to and tell more to. (usually other members of their own race)

[b-easy63]

One of the longest running and most troubling/stimulating/cathartic subjects was on races, specifically the interaction and experiences they had had with white America. Positives, negatives, but by and large most thought of the dominant culture as condescending, cruel, patronizing and jealous. Yep--each culture, from Black to Hispanic, ME, Asian, Malaysian, Indonesian, African, etc felt that whites were secretly jealous of them and was alway copying their culture..They''d talk about how they had to endure stupid jokes or questions about their hair or skin and they were contemptuous--not all of these groups got along--but when they decided to have a sort of "dis-fest" of American white culture--they never fought with each other--unless it was to try to outdo the stories on "the worst experience other"

next post