Comments on: Democrats Keep The Faith

Presidential Hopefuls Show More Zeal In Courting Religious Voters Than Their GOP Rivals

[fibonacci_]

Also dont forget that holy wars are fueled by such scriptures, and that these scriptures have been used as justification for fulfilling the prophecy. That significantly weakens the fact that parts of the prophecy came true.

[fibonacci_]

Interesting. Too bad they didn''t predict the holocaust, could have spared a lot of people a lot of grief.

"(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)"
-The site that you took that from has a typo there. He means 10 to the 20th power - where on Earth does that guy come up with these numbers? Most scientists and mathematicians would laugh at that for sure. Sounds absolutely absurd to claim those odds for something which is the subject of interpretation. You have to admit there is a lot of vague language used here. Examples of vague language: "for many generations", "then by a fourth world kingdom".

"giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world"
-like to Japan? That part, my friend, went unfulfilled. So the prophecy is unfulfilled.

[jankebenz]

8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God''s spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment%u2014in our lifetime.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)

[jankebenz]

You can say that, but it doesn''''t really say anything at all about the validity or truth of the religion does it? Every single cult leader that ever lived has said similar things to his followers "they will not believe me".

Posted by fibonacci_ at 04:15 PM : Nov 03, 2007

One of the factors that set the bible apart from any other literature or cult is prophesy. It has an uncanny accuracy with predicting future events as none else. An example out of hundreds, we can identify with is the rebirth of the nation of Israel after some 2300 years.In 1948 the state of israel was reborn against all odds and has since fought off attacks from much larger armies.That prophesy was made thousands of years before it took place. There are hundreds of fulfilled biblical prophecies that are too real to ignore

[fibonacci_]

""Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord..." Amos 8:11"

You can say that, but it doesn''t really say anything at all about the validity or truth of the religion does it? Every single cult leader that ever lived has said similar things to his followers "they will not believe me".

[fibonacci_]

Candide, I couldnt agree more. It is basically bigotry to insult the lifestyles of others when they arent doing any harm to you or dont even know you. Especially when it isnt really a choice either. I cannot even believe we dont afford homosexual people the same rights in the US. What ever happend to the constitution?

jankebenz I think I agree with you too. Sometimes I think we atheists tend to live fuller lives because we know we have got one shot. We dont depend on an afterlife.

I am curious about one thing in the afterlife - does one bring all of ones memories? I would think that once the brain deteriorates that memories would go too. Do Alzeihmers patients miraculously get their memories back? Where are these memories stored? If it is the case that we dont bring our memories, then we could be punished for something we dont even remember doing! Ah!

[jankebenz]

Wow Candide, nice site! Some good news on there too:

"In the US, the number of non-religious people has more than doubled from 14.3 million in 1990 to 29.4 million in 2001; their proportion has grown from just eight percent of the total in 1990 to over fourteen percent in 2001." Posted by fibonacci_ at 02:25 PM : Nov 03, 2007

At this rate it is predicted that by 2040 non religious people will be the majority in the U.S.
just as biblicaly prophesied as the "falling away"



Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - ''great falling away''] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3
And also in his letter to Timothy -
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils..." 1Timothy 4:1
And the prophet Amos -
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord..." Amos 8:11

[candide777]

I have family and friends that are "gay". So I guess that kills the bigot part of your post.
Posted by Klingon69 at 01:25 PM : Nov 03, 2007

Well, let me revive the "bigot" part of my post for you: Did you not accuse gay people of immorality? No one is forcing you to be gay, and gay people are not accusing you of immorality either for your beliefs (which I find absurd) or for your heterosexual lifestyle. Anyone that calls me immoral because I am gay is a bigot, plain and simple. There''s no rational argument that supports spreading that kind of hateful message about gay_s. It''s no different than calling Jews immoral for not accepting Christ. You can disagree with gay people without (a) calling them immoral; and (b) depriving them of equal rights under the law. Gay people are productive, hard-working, tax-paying members of this society who typically are more inclined to do charitable work than the average american, so if you want to call them all immoral based on who they love, you need to look within yourself to find out why it is you fear their difference.

[jankebenz]

I think the real important question we all must find the answer to is,what is life and what does it consist of? Is God and the bible true and relevant, thereby giving one eternal hope and life,or is God and the bible just mythological ramblings, thereby limiting ones life to do with as time allows

[fibonacci_]

Wow Candide, nice site! Some good news on there too:

"In the US, the number of non-religious people has more than doubled from 14.3 million in 1990 to 29.4 million in 2001; their proportion has grown from just eight percent of the total in 1990 to over fourteen percent in 2001."

"This was the greatest increase in absolute as well as in percentage terms among all religious groups."

Source: 2001 American Religious Identification Survey.

Finally people are starting to free their minds from the fettering chains of religion.

[klingon69]

I guess the context is this, why do you think it''''s okay to persecute gay people by accusing them of being immoral, but you are too afraid to do the same to Jewish people who also do not live according to your Bible''''s teachings? Could it be that when it comes to gay people, you are just a bigot, but don''''t realize it?
Posted by Candide777 at 11:38 AM : Nov 03, 2007
1st; I have persecuted nobody. I have family and friends that are "gay". So I guess that kills the bigot part of your post. Basically, I don''t care who someone chooses to wake up with. That is not my business. In the case of my niece, I think her present companion is a "***", but that is my opinion of her as a person, not becasue she is as lesbian.
2nd, Orthodox Jews do not view the New Testament as being valid, they view Jesus Christ as another prophet, not as the Messiah, I guess they are still awaiting his coming. Most orthodox Jews do live as their religion states. At least this is true of the few I have known. Since you stated "my bible" that means that it is for me. I cannot judge, condemn or even annoy those of differing faiths bassed upon my own beliefs, that would be wrong. I can no more condemn those Jews who do not abide by the New Testament, anymore than I could a Druid, Wiccan...etc.

[candide777]

fibonacci, next time someone wants to play "Bible Bingo," you should check out this website, it has some interesting evil Bible quotes:

http://www.evilbible.com/March.htm

I seem to remember that the Bible also forbids charging interest, but I don''t know a single Christian in this country that adheres to that law. I wonder why, could it be because it''s just not all that convenient? I guess, there is a place in hell for all Christians in this country who have collected interest on money in any form, whether from their bank account, or on invoices for the sale of Bibles.

[candide777]

Have you ever noticed that the Ron Paul supporters on this website are complete idiots, incapable of engaging or having any rational discussion. I have to assume his campaign is paying these losers to keep cutting and pasting the same ridiculous paragraphs over and over again. Try to engage one of them, and you''ll see what I mean. They are utterly incapable of any rational explaination for why the support Ron Paul. I don''t know who I will vote for yet, but right now my motto is "Anyone but Ron Paul!"

[candide777]

Mqybe I don''''t understand the context of your question.
Posted by Klingon69 at 09:52 AM : Nov 03, 2007

I guess the context is this, why do you think it''s okay to persecute gay people by accusing them of being immoral, but you are too afraid to do the same to Jewish people who also do not live according to your Bible''s teachings? Could it be that when it comes to gay people, you are just a bigot, but don''t realize it?

[klingon69]

Hmmm, Klingon69, do you think people of the Jewish faith live an immoral lifestyle?
Posted by Candide777 at 07:31 PM : Nov 02, 2007
Dunno, Of ther few I have known personally, they were nice people. I don''t understand their religion, but then again, I don''t understand any religion. I have not tried to convert them to Christianity, nor have they tried to convert me. Mqybe I don''t understand the context of your question.

[fibonacci_]

Dont worry about me - I have the gift of a free mind which does not feel the need to adhere to any set of beliefs imposed upon me! For this I am truly happy.

[jankebenz]

Right on...I think its cool that you dont really directly insult people. Some other Christians on this board definately throw insults when they get frustrated and desperate. I also dont really mean to rag on you, but it is always interesting for me to try to get inside the minds of the religious because it is something I really dont understand. I have been debating religious people since high school and have debated with people from just about all major faiths.

I hope you understand why it could sound crazy to me - like I said imagine some muslim preaching.

Posted by fibonacci_ at 01:48 AM : Nov 03, 2007

I truly hope that you will find understanding and truth Goodnight its late, may God bless you all

[fibonacci_]

Well put Candide777, it is obsurd what these people (this person?) is doing. In 2008 they will see that they could have spent their time doing something better, like polishing their shoes.

[fibonacci_]

Right on...I think its cool that you dont really directly insult people. Some other Christians on this board definately throw insults when they get frustrated and desperate. I also dont really mean to rag on you, but it is always interesting for me to try to get inside the minds of the religious because it is something I really dont understand. I have been debating religious people since high school and have debated with people from just about all major faiths.

I hope you understand why it could sound crazy to me - like I said imagine some muslim preaching.

[candide777]

Why is it that Ron Paul''s supporters want to turn this entire country against Ron Paul? I thought the fundamentalist christians were bad, but Ron Paul supporters are making them look quite rational, intelligent and civilized by comparison. Never thought I''d say it, but I''d vote for a fundie long before I''d vote for Ron Paul. Ron Paul can rot in hell for the rude behaviour of his supporters.