Comments on: Debate, All Night Long, On Iraq

As Senate Sets Stage For Vote On Withdrawing Troops Within 120 Days

[usayesterday]

But, in the real world, they do not represent "we, the people." They represent "we, the rich and powerful." And, continue to ignore "we, the people" as they have always done.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 02:08 AM : Jul 18, 2007
............

That always perplexes me when people, (mostly on the right), complain that Clinton governed by the polls.

Well, as you have eloquently said tucker, we are the people they're supposed to represent. And, if they are supposed to represent us....

...when the polls show over 70% of the population saying get out of Iraq, THEN OUR GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVES SHOULD HAVE BEGUN THE PULL OUT YESTERDAY!

[menofoz]

As Brigadier General Robert Pollman has since explained, %u201CIt ma[de] a lot of logical sense%u201D to %u201Cswap%u201D U.S. bases in Saudi Arabia for new bases in Iraq. Using preparations for the 2003 invasion of Iraq as political cover, nearly all U.S. troops and most of the Pentagon%u2019s military infrastructure were pulled out of Saudi Arabia. Qatar now hosts the Combined Air Command Center. Thousands of U.S. troops are based in Kuwait, where they are trained, have easy access to the model supply base at Doha, and can support military operations in Iraq. But the greatest part of the infrastructure has been redeployed to Iraq.

The Baker-Hamilton Study Group functionally endorses the Pentagon%u2019s %u201CGo Long%u201D strategy, which envisions 50,000 to 60,000 troops %u2013 including one-tenth of the U.S. Army %u2013 remaining in Iraq %u201Cfor years to come.%u201D This helps to explain why the Pentagon is continuing to spend nearly $1 billion a year to build and expand military bases in Iraq. As Major General Allen G. Peck, deputy air commander of the U.S. Central Command, put it in May 2006, %u201CWe%u2019ll be in the region for the foreseeable future %u2026 Our intention would be to stay as long as the host nations will have us.%u201D

[searingtruth]

Yikes!!!

Patriot Senator Cantwell is saying the "O" word!.

Hallelujah!

She's telling the truth about one of the major reasons we went to war - Oil!

On national TV!

And lots of people are watching!

Hallelujah again!
ST


"The fabric of American empire ought to rest on the solid basis of THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE. The streams of national power ought to flow from that pure, original fountain of all legitimate authority."
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 22, December 14, 1787

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[usayesterday]

(I have it on good authority that screen_name_at is none other than Tony Blankley of the McLaughlin Group)
Posted by Iceman_1960 at 02:04 AM : Jul 18, 2007
.....

LOL!

Sorry, everytime I hear or see the name 'McLaughlin Group', it reminds me of the Dana Carvey spoof he did on Saturday Night Live many years ago.

Just makes me chuckle a little. But a little humor, no matter where it's found, is definitely needed in today's political/economic climate!

[menofoz]

Enduring%u201D U.S. Bases in Iraq
Monopolizing the Middle East Prize


by Joseph Gerson

[T]here are people in Washington %u2026 who never intend to withdraw military forces from Iraq and they%u2019re looking for ten, 20, 50 years in the future %u2026 the reason that we went into Iraq was to establish a permanent military base in thegulf region, and I have never heard any of our leaders say that they would commit themselves to the Iraqi people that ten years from now there will be no military bases of the United States in Iraq.
%u2013Former President Jimmy Carter (Feb. 3, 2006)

It is difficult to believe that with the U.S. establishment having all but conceded defeat in Iraq, and with the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group having signaled that the United States needs the help of its rivals Iran and Syria %u2013 as well as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and other influential Middle Eastern nations %u2013 to contain the Iraqi civil war, the U.S. is still pursuing the war and building permanent military bases in the disintegrating nation. Yet, this is precisely what the Pentagon is doing.

Their reasoning is simple: the geostrategic stakes are high. Given history and the importance of Middle East oil, Iraq has become what Eqbal Ahmad used to call %u201Cthe geopolitical center of the struggle for world power.%u201D


http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0319-26.htm

[randalds]

(Actually, I'm more for sending them over to Afghanistan to take care of that country once and for all. As it should have been before March 2003).
Posted by USAyesterday at 02:03 AM : Jul 18, 2007

I always supported going into Afghanistan, though not for the same reason Bush went there. For me it was to go in, hit al_qaeda, take out bin Laden and then get out. For Bush it was a cheaper way (for the oil/energy companies) to get the Trans-Afghan pipeline built without having to pay his buddies in the Taliban their cut like they wanted when they came over to visit Cheney in March 2001.

[tuckerndfw]

We could have an all out battle (of words) right here, and all the Senators and Congress can watch online! They wouldn't need to debate, as we'd be showing them a REAL debate right here!

Posted by USAyesterday at 01:59 AM : Jul 18, 2007

The fact is that we are the USA (assuming all of us are American citizens). The president, congressmen and judges are our employees, they are not our "leaders" or "bosses."

I pay their salary, they do not pay mine.

That seems to be lost on many people. The only legitimate debate is the one we are having, and other similar debates.

Hopefully, our employees are paying attention to these discussions since they are the basis for how they should vote.

But, in the real world, they do not represent "we, the people." They represent "we, the rich and powerful." And, continue to ignore "we, the people" as they have always done.

[usayesterday]

So who was supposed to bring the beer?
Posted by RandalDS at 02:02 AM : Jul 18, 2007
.............

Lars drank it all....


...D.A.M.N FOOL!

[searingtruth]

"Just a side note...

It appears a great crowd is all here tonight! ..."
USAyesterday


Indeed. Hello everyone!. This is great, I've never seen so many Republicans look so desperate and befuddled before. They're really scraping on their bellies now ...

Wait till Bush and Cheney are impeached, they're going to be absolutely dizzy with American justice.
ST


"Here sir, the people govern."
Alexander Hamilton, speech to the New York Ratifying Convention, June 17, 1788

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[iceman_1960]

"It appears a great crowd is all here tonight!

Randal, Iceman, tucker, SearingTruth, (okay... and me too)."
- Posted by USAyesterday at 01:59 AM : Jul 18, 2007

Thanks.

Also "screen_name_at", whose trenchant and penetrating analysis of the whole situation has caused me to see it in an entirely new light.

(I have it on good authority that screen_name_at is none other than Tony Blankley of the McLaughlin Group)

[usayesterday]

It shows that they are trying, but that it's the republicans fault that the war will go on. That way hopefully the people will put all their pressure on the republicans where it belongs.
Posted by RandalDS at 01:56 AM : Jul 18, 2007
.............

The staunch repukes will go for the filibuster if they see that enough real American Republicans vote with the Democrats on pulling our troops out.

I know I'm taking the more pessimistic view on this, but I think the '08 elections will have come and gone before we see the first combat brigades come home.

(Actually, I'm more for sending them over to Afghanistan to take care of that country once and for all. As it should have been before March 2003).

[tuckerndfw]

Democrats, if they were not in bed with the same war profiteers as the Republicans, could "stop this war" within weeks.

They have the power to shut down the entire federal government until the Bush administration concedes defeat.

It seems fair to me we should all suffer the consequence rather than foisting it on the backs of US soldiers and innocent Iraqi citizens.

Democrats, as a party, are just as corrupt as Republicans. They both dance to the same war profiteering fiddlers.

[randalds]

Randal, Iceman, tucker, SearingTruth, (okay... and me too).

All we need now is Lars008, Singinrick, jb01021a, and not_blue.

Posted by USAyesterday at 01:59 AM : Jul 18, 2007

So who was supposed to bring the beer?

[menofoz]

SAUDI ARABIA
Although the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom declared that, with the demise of the Taliban, Saudi Arabia is probably the worst oppressor of religious rights in the world, the Bush Administration decided on political grounds to leave the kingdom off its annual list of "countries of particular concern," an American blacklist of countries that engage in "systematic, ongoing, and egregious" violations of the rights of religious minorities.18

Saudi Arabia is a dynastic monarchy, ruled by King Fahd Bin Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud. The country%u2019s constitution is the Koran and the Sunna (tradition) of the prophet Muhammad, and the country is thus governed by a strict interpretation of Islamic law. Because there are no democratic institutions, citizens have no role in the government. Security in the country is enforced by both a secular security force, and the Mutawwa'in, the religious police, who comprise the Committee to Promote Virtue and Prevent Vice. Because the traditional Islamic view of human rights does not coincide with the modern view, the government has allowed both the secular and religious security forces to commit serious abuses.

The Saudi government beheaded 52 people in 2003, for crimes including murder, robbery, drug smuggling, and homosexuality.19

[searingtruth]

Yeah!!!

McCain is interrupting to tell us how really great things are! (again).

He's so cute ... (and deadly)
ST


"And his denial was death, for so many who deserved to live."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[usayesterday]

Just a side note...

It appears a great crowd is all here tonight!

Randal, Iceman, tucker, SearingTruth, (okay... and me too).

All we need now is Lars008, Singinrick, jb01021a, and not_blue.

We could have an all out battle (of words) right here, and all the Senators and Congress can watch online! They wouldn't need to debate, as we'd be showing them a REAL debate right here!

[randalds]

Posted by USAyesterday at 01:52 AM : Jul 18, 2007

No, but it does push the issue back to where it belongs, in the laps of the republicans as obstructionists. It also demonstrates something that there's still too few people understanding, that the democrats can not stop this war without the change of some of the republicans. It shows that they are trying, but that it's the republicans fault that the war will go on. That way hopefully the people will put all their pressure on the republicans where it belongs.

[iceman_1960]

Joe Lieberman's support for the Iraq War is atypical.

The American Jewish community has voted with its feet against this war. Less than 1% of the troops in Iraq are Jewish (*). They want no part of this war. They know it's wrong.

The Jewish Peace Fellowship is among the organizations calling for an end to the occupation of Iraq.

http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/



(*) Source for that statistic:

Samuel G. Freedman, professor of journalism at Columbia University.

http://www.azure.org.il/download/magazine/1756az21_Freedman_review.pdf

[menofoz]

Politics
Main article: Politics of Saudi Arabia
The central institution of the Saudi Arabian government is the Saudi monarchy. The Basic Law of Government adopted in 1992 declared that Saudi Arabia is a monarchy ruled by the sons and grandsons of the first king, Abd Al Aziz Al Saud. It also claims that the Qur'an is the constitution of the country, which is governed on the basis of Islamic law (Sharia) [1].

Main article: Human rights in Saudi Arabia
Several international human rights organizations, such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the United Nations Human Rights Committee have issued reports critical of the Saudi legal system and its human rights record in various political, legal, and social areas. The Saudi government typically dismisses such reports as being outright lies or asserts that its actions are based on its adherence to Islamic law.

In 2002, the United Nations Committee against Torture criticized Saudi Arabia over the amputations and floggings it carries out under the Shari'a. The Saudi delegation responded defending its legal traditions held since the inception of Islam in the region 1400 years ago and rejected "interference" in its legal system.

[usayesterday]

Randal, Iceman:

Do any of you really think an "all night debate" is going to change anything with the dipshit-in-chief currently at the White(man's)House?

I think this is all for show. Unless the Democrats can wave a magic wand and come up with 60 or more votes in the Senate, (and a few dozen more in the House), our soldiers will still continue to die tomorrow, and the day after that, and the day after that.

Ultimately...

...talk, once again, proves to be very very cheap!