Comments on: NRA, Democrats Team Up To Pass Gun Bill

After Virginia Tech Shootings, House Passes Bill To Strengthen National Background Check System

[samthetvcat]

Oh, I just noticed this article was updated with more details on the legislation . . . another red flag Constitutional issue:

"The bill would automatically restore the purchasing rights of veterans who were diagnosed with mental problems as part of the process of obtaining disability benefits. LaPierre said the Clinton administration put about 80,000 such veterans into the background check system."

If so much as one veteran with a record of mental illness is able to legally obtain a licensed handgun which he then uses to commit a murder, this whole legislation's going to be vulnerable to an equal protection challenge, particularly if the accused then uses PTSD as part of his defense.

I think the second vulnerability is with some of those red states that equate free exercise of 2A with patriotism, who don't have a lot of gun violence and who place a high priority on privacy . . . if the State's not behind the law and the costs of keeping records and reporting exceed the money granted by Congress, the Supreme Courts not going to have any choice but to declare the law Unconstitutional as a infringement on State sovereignty.

Hopefully Congress got accurate estimates of how much this record-keeping is going to cost, and have a sense of which States are more likely to be looking out for reasons to challenge the law. It's vital Constitutionally speaking that the money be adequate . . .

[donnie900]

Those Iraqis? Man, I envy those folks. No more Law? No more Nancy Grace? No more CNN liberal commentary? What could be better?

[donnie900]

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I have Iraq envy. A clean slate .. Starting over again. And putting all those big mouthed liberal lunatics on some island somewhere in the Arctic Ocean. They can have their own liberal teevee shows up there.

[donnie900]

You republicans aren't done yet, you know. I think what we have here is an opportunity. What happened at Virgina Tech was every warning sign anybody could have ever hoped for, and still nothing being done. And now we have along side that stick, an age old constitutional debate about gun rights and gun ownership, and its relationship with the Constitution. And in the wake of Iraq; a war that everybody thought and even knew was justified. But along comes the democratic elephant. And for 6 or 7 years, it has been doing nothing but complaining. To the point where I can manage to facilitate the logic behind why everybody was so afraid of Jane Fonda back in the Vietnam War.

These people pranced on that campus, taking everybody's parking spaces, acting like everything and anything could have been done to prevent this thing. And now they're walking all over Washington D.C.'s campus, claiming Iraq was completely preventable. A legal system of hollywood hype and moviestar mantra that supposed to be news.

Its an opportunity, Republicans. To set things right.

[afinefolly]

' ... i tell ya what we're gonna do, i know how much you love ur wars, so: we'll give 100% of global resources to the 1% of global folk that like to dance get sick soon tax the world first strike on the trail songs, and we'll give nothing to the 99% of global folk that like to dance get well soon you are here why why why feed the world first aid on the trail songs ... and that's my final offer ... '

[donnie900]

"This is unconstitutional. We need proof before declaring people guilty enough to remove their rights. Just because someone is a mental patient does not mean they aren't a law-abiding citizen. Many people seek mental help now. Laws should not discriminate against them."

I agree. I'd argue that murder in and of itself is a form of insanity or mental illness. But the dialogue nowadays is so thick with legality, nobody can talk about it without dozing off into technicalities. The Law has become something that personifies illegitimacy and impotency. Itself a diagnosis.

[lorinkundert]

No big deal, I'll just keep ignoring unconstitutional acts and go about my business.

[gunownerdan]

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms."
- Lenin

"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We wouldn%u2019t let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"
- Joseph Stalin

"Every Communist must grasp the truth, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."
- Mao Zedong

"On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
- Adolf Hitler

"All military type firearms are to be handed in immediately...The SS, SA and Stahlhelm give every responsible opportunity of campaigning with them. Therefore anyone who does not belong to one of the above-named organizations and who unjustifiably nevertheless keeps his weapon...must be regarded as an enemy of the national government."
- SA Oberfuhrer of Bad Tolz, March, 1933

[cfin5]

One problem that I did not see in the article, like I figured would not be there anyway. It is the "ANTI-DEPRESSANT DRUG" factor involved in all of these high profile killings from Columbine to Virginia Tech......I believe this was left out intentionally. Would'nt want the news media to rock the FDA's boat now would we! I'm surprised that it has not sunk already.

[erasmus6]

If no one was allowed to own a gun then there would be less reason to have to protect yourself.Where I live no one is allowed to own a gun, so I do not have to live in fear of being shot.

And as for not allowing someone that is mentally disturbed to own a gun, are you serious? Do you know how many mentally disturbed people are out there that haven't been DIAGNOSED as mentally disturbed? I can guarantee that there would be many that would be undetected. If the U.S. hadn't been so free with handing out guns the mentally disturbed wouldn't ALREADY have them.

[evanesce7]

The point is that many mental health professionals have an altered sense of reality, because they are often wrong when they declare people are a danger to themselves or others. This is why they are no better than chance at determining who is a danger. This gun law should apply only to people who are actually violent. If all mental health professionals who make these judgments were reliable, they would inform judges that their opinions are often not reliable. This is why psychiatrists frequently can't agree on what's going on in a patient. Our laws should be based on better proof than this. Mental patients are declared guilty without proof. One patient diagnosed with depression talked about suicide while wandering around with a gun. This would have been enough to commit him involuntarily today. This man was Abraham Lincoln.

Guns are an evil reality of life that will never go away at the hands of man.

Guns should be controlled as to the type of guns that can be pruchased and by whom.

I would never agree to a complete ban on guns leaving me and family defenseless in the face of a mad man depending solely upon the police to protect me.

That in itself is insane.

[susanhelit]

To be involuntarily committed, you have to be found to be a threat to yourself or others. Yeah, they should not be allowed to buy guns - it's not discrimination, it's common sense!


Sure, many may not be violent - at the moment. But to have an altered sense of reality, who knows what you will do with a gun?

[evanesce7]

Almost all mental patients are not violent. Most are victims of trauma, including abuse, loss of a loved one, and shock from tragedies like war. If grieving VT students sought mental help, should they have less rights than other citizens? I have read there is a greater percentage of violent people in the general population than in the population of mental patients. It is psychologically abusive to frame mental patients in general as dangerous. People are often considered mental patients because they have strong emotions. However, emotions are not dangerous. Actions are dangerous. People who have been proven to be violent should not have guns. However, mental hospitals are allowd to lock up and diagnose people who have not done anything violent. Studies show mental health professionals are no better than chance at predicting who is a danger to self or others. So, people are locked up without probable cause. This is unconstitutional. We need proof before declaring people guilty enough to remove their rights. Just because someone is a mental patient does not mean they aren't a law-abiding citizen. Many people seek mental help now. Laws should not discriminate against them.

[sparks224]

I think everyone in America should be required to carry a loaded, fully automatic, weapon on them at all times. Then everything would be great..........what er you lookin at

[dresser72]

I think everyone should be checked out throughly before they can buy a gun and also before they apply and get a concealed weapons permit. Why would anyone drawing a Social Security check for being mentally ill have the right to possess a concealed weapons permit and an arsonal of guns, living with his Alzheimer's diseased Mother. I look forward to the day they take his guns and permit away. Yesterday wouldn't have been soon enough for it to have happened to him. I've had him in court and the judge just acted like I was the bad person in the situation and so did the social worker. I hope this country wakes up soon.
Dresser72

[gustavo22-2009]

It is obvious that those speaking ill of the NRA and their "supposed" about face on this bill are uninformed on the NRA's stand on this issue for over a decade. The Brady group claims a victory in this matter when it is a victory for Americans across the board, ESPECIALLY THE NRA. The NRA has pushed for mental record checks AND the NICS checks on gun buyers. They are the ones who are for this common sense legislation without trampling the rights of law abiding citizens. To get the facts straight on the history of this issue go to NRANEWS.com and under the archives you will find Charlton Heston TV adds during the Clinton re-election campaign. Mr Heston clearly calls for mental record checks on gun buyers that Clinton fought AGAINST! Let's all get the facts straight! Especially you CBS news!

[susanhelit]

Well, aside from my own point of view on gun control - this is a Duh! bill, and it's a pity they couldn't pass it earlier! No one with mental health issues should be able to own a gun, and the only way for that to have meaning is to make sure the information is communicated between the appropriate agencies!


How hard is it to see that when someone has serious enough mental health issues, it does have to be, to some degree, society's business to know about it. At least enough that they can't buy guns, or work in a few sensitive fields (I wouldn't want Cho driving a school bus either).

[gunownerdan]

sjc1 said:
"I would like to think the the NRA does not want loonies to have guns, but some past positions have shown otherwise."

Well sjc1, one man's loony is another man's president.

[sjc_1]

The NRA could not get on the other side of this issue, it would have made them look like the buffoons that they truly are. So they figured that if they get in on the legislation, at least they could shape it the way they wanted. I would like to think the the NRA does not want loonies to have guns, but some past positions have shown otherwise.