Comments on: Hillary: Faith Got Me Past Bill's Affair

Dem Candidates Talk About Role Of Religion In Lives And Politics

[mudrose-2009]

mudrose,

No, Jefferson wanted religion and government to be separate. He wanted government to be limited from codifying one religion over another.

He wanted a different model than the Church of England where there was an offical church and offical prayer. For those of you who want to spread the Gospel, this is not the way to gain sincere followers.

Posted by realpatriot1

Amazing. Even when you read something you misinterpret. Amazing. That's what the First Amendment states. Amazing. No State Church.

[huskerarmy]

Very simply, the %u201Cfence%u201D of the Webster letter and the %u201Cwall%u201D of the Danbury letter were not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions.
Posted by mudrose
Very simply wrong. Speaking on the need for that seperation...

"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ."
-- Thomas Jefferson

John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Christian religion."

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."
-- James Madison

[realpatriot1]

mudrose,

No, Jefferson wanted religion and government to be separate. He wanted government to be limited from codifying one religion over another.

He wanted a different model than the Church of England where there was an offical church and offical prayer. That's what you want, it's not what Jefferson wanted.

Send your kids to church to pray. Let them pray at home. You can even let them recite silent prayer on their own in school. Don't ask teachers to shove one religion down everyone's throat.

For those of you who want to spread the Gospel, this is not the way to gain sincere followers.

[mudrose-2009]

So then mudrose you would have no problem with burning that needless piece of paper we call the Constitution and replaceing it with the Bible... Oh but then whose Bible shall we use?
Posted by huskerarmy

One further note should be made about the now infamous %u201Cseparation%u201D dogma. The Congressional Records from June 7 to September 25, 1789, record the months of discussions and debates of the ninety Founding Fathers who framed the First Amendment. Significantly, not only was Thomas Jefferson not one of those ninety who framed the First Amendment, but also, during those debates not one of those ninety Framers ever mentioned the phrase %u201Cseparation of church and state.%u201D It seems logical that if this had been the intent for the First Amendment-as is so frequently asserted-then at least one of those ninety who framed the Amendment would have mentioned that phrase; none did.

In summary, the %u201Cseparation%u201D phrase so frequently invoked today was rarely mentioned by any of the Founders; and even Jefferson%u2019s explanation of his phrase is diametrically opposed to the manner in which courts apply it today. %u201CSeparation of church and state%u201D currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant.

Hardly.

[huskerarmy]

"Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights..."
Posted by mudrose
So then mudrose you would have no problem with burning that needless piece of paper we call the Constitution and replaceing it with the Bible... Oh but then whose Bible shall we use?

[mudrose-2009]

Therefore, Congress passing laws prohibiting prayer in school or manger scenes is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
"make no law prohibiting the free exercise therof"
Posted by processed

Correct.

Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights and that the government, therefore, was to be prevented from interference with those rights. Very simply, the %u201Cfence%u201D of the Webster letter and the %u201Cwall%u201D of the Danbury letter were not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions.

The ACLU has been bludgeoning the establishment clause for years. If one does not know the law, which is what they count on, they push whole communities to the brink of bankruptcy unless they remove public displays of relgion.

[mudrose-2009]

mudrose:
Prove it!!!!
Posted by nikosk1

Prove what? Prove who? That you exist?

[huskerarmy]

Therefore, Congress passing laws prohibiting prayer in school or manger scenes is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
"make no law prohibiting the free exercise therof"
Posted by processed
No one can get inside your head. Obviously you can pray all day long in school if your heart so desires. you just can't force it on anyone else... which is of course what you really want to do.

[huskerarmy]

"ask NOT what your country can do for you, but rather, what YOU can do for your country"
Posted by processed
Processed, Do you have even the slightest clue as to the context of this famous JFK quote. Kennedy espoused a country where the government was representive of and responsive to it's citizens, and citizens were socially responsible as well. He coind the phrase "affirmative action" and in no way preached the kind of social Darwinism embraced by you and your ilk.

[mudrose-2009]

mudrose,

Look up separation of church and state on Wikpedia. The genesis of the term was a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 referring to the First Amendment as creating a "wall of separation" between Church & State. Clearly, it was the intent of the founding fathers that this separation be the law of the land!

Posted by realpatriot1

Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights and that the government, therefore, was to be prevented from interference with those rights. Very simply, the %u201Cfence%u201D of the Webster letter and the %u201Cwall%u201D of the Danbury letter were not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions.