Comments on: Agreement Nears On Iraq Funding Bill

Democrats Close To Compromise On Paying For War Without Setting Timeline For Withdrawal

[searingtruth]

"And so death begat death, and suffering begat suffering, until all had been consumed, and all cause lost."
SearingTruth

"Death. I saw only death. And a promise from evil that death would soon subside."
SearingTruth

"A principle, sacrificed, is rarely resurrected."
SearingTruth

"Truth is defined by the weakest of us who must suffer through it."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[the74blaster]

toldyouso21,

Your comments are a bit more angry than mine, but you are correct in that we were sold out by the democrats for some more pork. Its too bad they are unable to put up a decent fight and do what they were elected to do, stop the war.

Simply put they could have resisted into July and made Chickenhawk and Cheney sweat it out so they could get some meaningful concessions out of the GOP, without impacting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The problem is history has not been kind to those who make concessions without a meaningful trade from the other side. In the words of Winston Churchill, You have gained dishonor and you will have war.

[searingtruth]

"Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever."
John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, July 17, 1775

"A little matter will move a party, but it must be something great that moves a nation."
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1792

"I wanted only a freedom for all that I had coveted for myself."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[realpatriot1]

toldyouso21,

Of course I lied when I said I was shutting up.
I'm glad that there are people like you that will fight for what they believe. I'm even glad that there are people like mudrose who will do so.

We're clearly fighting for the same thing, our styles are just different and I can't say I'm sure which is really more suitable now.

The political reality as I see it is that nothing is going to get us out before fall regardless of what the Congressional Democrats do unless Bush decides to pull the troops out precipitously. What I mean by that is, run chaotically for the choppers like we did in Vietnam while the insurgents really get to use us for target practice and the civilians try to hang onto the choppers.

I think the word has been delivered to the Iraqis, the Syrians,the Saudis, and the Turks already. The American people will be the last to know that we're pulling out by Fall. Iran will be kept at bay with low level insurgent fighting until then.

[searingtruth]

"Our cause is noble; it is the cause of mankind!"
George Washington, letter to James Warren, March 31, 1779

"We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times."
George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, July 15, 1777

"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."
George Washington, letter to Edmund Randolph, July 31, 1795

"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death."
Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, No. 1, December 19, 1776

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again."
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776

"No tyrant in history has ever prevailed."
SearingTruth


A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[toldyouso21]

whats the difference between rahm imanuel and joe liberman ??? just the party they claim to represent.
Posted by usadvisor101 at 10:19 PM : May 22, 2007


Indeed. Recently I had a revelation. Having staked a claim against Bush and the neo cons early in their rise to power--I have often been in the company of good people, who for some reason, I thought were above the fray and that a sort of decency separated each party. Until I dared to disagree with them on illegal immigration. All of a sudden, a person who I had conversed with for months was using all kinds of expletives and diatribes--just because I was not in their corner. Funny, until that point, I had never noticed that Democrats could be as close minded or as venal as other groups. IN fact, the idea of liberalism means the opposite. But the gloves were off--the mask slipped and I found--just like you said, that really the only difference in people are what they believe in, but the tactics, attitudes and mindset are very similar if they are thwarted. It was from that moment on, that I realised that I had idealised a party and that really, the people in each are not more tolerant or necessarily conversant--it all depends on where they stand. That person (RandalDS) also made me accept that within the liberal camp are those who actually are liberal and many who are liberal only on matters they support and as rabid as anyone else on other issues.

[feelfree1]

We see that the Democrats continue to demonstrate their uselessness and complicity, as our leading 'opposition' Party. What a sad, shameful joke.

Demand an exit, immediately. We need to focus our attentions on bringing the Bush regime to justice, and repairing the damage:

www.ipetitions.com/petition/OutNow/index-135.html

[toldyouso21]

toldyouso21,

I apologise for my nasty remarks in the last post, the entire first paragraph. I'm tired and I'll shut up now.
Posted by realpatriot1 at 10:12 PM : May 22, 2007

Of course apology is accepted. I did not think of your remarks as nasty. I have heard much, much worse.LOL
We are all tired realpatriot. The very sad truth is, we have stood on the same side of many issues for quite a while and no doubt will continue in some vein, and there are good people on both sides of the debate--what is the most tiring and disillusioning is that we are pitching the same arguements day after day and seeing little gain for it.

[toldyouso21]

toldyouso21,Are you 21? If you want someone who stands for fighting you should be a Republican.
Posted by realpatriot1 at 10:03 PM : May 22, 2007

I am over 40. And I have always been a fighter. I have always stood up for what I believed to be right or just--no matter if it cost me a grade or a jobor a friend. I call that moral integrity and as the parameters to live a life---a moral imperative. Some people have rather flexible attitudes toward right and wrong and think of themselves as merely pragmatic when they bend their own stance to gain ground. Ground gained in a wrong way, is really not ground worth gaining. I don't believe the end justifies the means. I believe in going down fighting. I don't support the Republicans because I do not believe in illegal wars, torture, disliking people or making laws to stop free choices in gender preferences or having kids. But I dislike the Democrats for daring to perform the same sleight of hand they decry from the right in applying or disregarding laws when it suits their agenda. (illegal immigration amnesty) So I fit into neither camp. Suffice to say at the end of the day, whether I win or lose, I'd like to know that I stood where I always meant to stand, that I did not lie, or cheat or bend over to get my way--and if I am bloodied and do not win at all--I take satisfaction that whatever makes a person have a true sense of self is intact. I believe in honor and in standing up to things--and I believe in doing it no matter the cost.

[realpatriot1]

toldyouso21,

I apologise for my nasty remarks in the last post, the entire first paragraph. I'm tired and I'll shut up now.

[toldyouso21]

time to march, eh???
Posted by usadvisor101 at 10:01 PM : May 22, 2007


Past time to march. I am wondering if there is a way for the people to call a referendum on a 'no confidence vote' no confidence for Bush, this Congress, etc. If perhaps we can have an interim election and rid ourselves of all of them. Is no one brave enough, and smart enough and honor bound enough to stand up and fight for what they believe in, no matter the ultimate consequences?

If Hagel would run, I would vote for him--for having the ballz to put the "I " word out there. We are actually in a middle of a new paradigm shift in our government--but Democrats fail to realize that. You cannot be all things to everyone --in the end, few can respect that. You have to take a position and believe in it and hold onto it. This is what worries me most about the Democrats--it appears that pleasing or gaining the Congress is paramount--but we do not know what many of them believe in. REally, really believe in to the point of putting everything on the line for.

[realpatriot1]

toldyouso21,

Are you 21? If you want someone who stands for fighting you should be a Republican.

You think fall is too far off and you want the troops out now. Don't we all. Cutting off funding and impeachment would both take us well into next year and the issue would be resolved before then. The fix is in as radiob has pointed out. You and the Islamofascist fighters need to get used to it. The Republican political calendar will kick in well before cutting the funds or impeachment would have a chance to. That's reality.

[toldyouso21]

Imagine the Republicans being advised by Rove to continue to support Bush even through the fall, realizing that the support for the Democrats was tenuous at best and watching it erode as more and more people become disillusioned with the Dems. There is the possibility, that people will be so disgusted with the weak posturing of this Congress that they will backlash again. I and others disillusioned with the Dems are not occurring in a vacuum. If enough of us see them as ineffectual and worthless, it will not matter if Republicans support Bush or the war--Americans will then turn away from the weak horse to back the stronger--because they will know something Democrats fail to realize---backing the weak or the strong does not seem to stop the war--so many will go for the stronger--at least there is a type of purity in being steadfast in being wrong and something more than sleazy about whiners or complainers that yield the same results as the other group--but do it while pretending they are victims to Bush and circumstances.

America does not really like victims...especially if they are supposed to be fighting for us.

[toldyouso21]

CORRECTION:

and when the fall comes and Bush still refuses to pull them out--what will you say then? If we are actually held hostage to Bush--then why did we put the Democrats in power? What exactly is their purpose? They actually serve no purpose--unless--- before bending over and taking it UP THE azz like the Republicans have--you are proud of the fact that the Democrats scream "OUCH!" first, then bend over just the same.

Cowards always have a rationale for why they fail to engage in a fight and why they always either run or give in. Better to stand for something than fall for everything. We'd like to know that the Democrats stand and stand steadfast for something--but they seem to fold for anything. You may come up with reasons to see it in a devious and ingenious light--but most of us see them for the cowards they are. Thinking and strategy has never been a Democratic strongpoint. Neither has bravery. Like I said, if they can do nothing--then there was and is no point in bringing them back into power--they are even afraid to impeach. Worthless.

[toldyouso21]

The only thing the Democrats can accomplish without Republican Congressional support is to give Bush someone to blame when he decides to pull out in early fall. Nothing can get us out any sooner at this point.
Posted by realpatriot1 at 09:44 PM : May 22, 2007

and when the fall comes and Bush still refuses to pull them out--what will you say then? If we are actually held hostage to Bush--then why did we put the Democrats in power? What exactly is their purpose? They actually serve no purpose--unless--- before bending over and taking it azz like the Republicans have--you are proud of the fact that the Democrats scream "OUCH!" first, then bend over just the same.

[toldyouso21]

Bush and Republicans to Democrats: "YOU'VE JUST BEEN PUNKED!!!! BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...ad nauseum. NEXT.

[realpatriot1]

radiob,

That's exactly what's going on and the Democrats know it.

Bush & Cheney are praying that the Democrats will listen to itoldyouso and pull the useless stunt of refusing to fund the troops. There's enough supplies in the pipeline to keep the troops there well past the fall even if the funding had been cut in January.

Only Bush can pull them out without a Constitutional court fight that would last until the Republican judges decided to hear it.

The only thing the Democrats can accomplish without Republican Congressional support is to give Bush someone to blame when he decides to pull out in early fall. Nothing can get us out any sooner at this point.

[toldyouso21]

Posted by usadvisor101 at 09:30 PM : May 22, 2007

Are you implying that the Democrats are helpless to these circumstances? If so, why should we keep them in power? After the first veto, polls showed that the approval rating of Congress went up and that a majority blamed Bush for not funding the troops. So why did they give in now? If by your post, you are implying that the Democrats are just victims of the evil of the Republican schemes..then guess what? When we want a champion, we do NOT need other victims. If the Democrats in office are just weak and can do nothing--THEN WHY SHOULD WE ALLOW THEM TO BE THERE? TO PULL A CHECK? Edwards suggested the bill be sent back again and again--but they were too scared to do that, Hilary suggested they vote to end his authorization for war--they were too scared to do that.

Neo Cons want us to give Bush and Republicans a free pass no matter what happens and it looks like die hard Democrats do too. I am an Independent, I drink koolaide from neither side. If I send a relief team in to make it better and they fail--time for a new play and possibly, a new team. This pathetic blame game speaks for itself. NO one is denying Bush and the GOP got us into hell---what we are angry about is that the people who should be throwing us a rope out are too scared and weak to hold onto a rope.

[pgoodlin]

I'm more than disgusted with the Democrats! For once, I thought they would stand on their own feet and not let Rove and Bush beat them up. So what if Bush vetoes it again, keep sending it to him until he gets fed up and gives up! How many more of our young men and women are going to get killed before Congress stands on their own two feet and tells the president to go to hell and bring our troops home!!

[the74blaster]

I am also fed up with the democrats bowing to Bush when the majority of the country says its time to change the course. I thought majority rules in a true deomocracy?

Obviously money talks in DC and congress is just going to keeping eating the pork without any regard as to who is going to end paying for it! The GOP certainly showed us they are very capable of spending taxpayer dollars without any regard to the future over the last 6 years. I suppose the democrats do not want to left out.

What I will say is Bush was able to get his victory and it means an esculation in war. How long will it be before Bush makes false statements to justify an invasion of Iran?

I am glad my kids are not old enough for a draft.