Comments on: Ex-General: Bush Should Sign Iraq Bill

On Democrats' Radio Time Retired Army Big Says U.S. Squandered Lives

[iceman_1960]

"We've heard elaborate Domino Theories before"

And we've heard them from the best and the brightest:

"[In getting involved in Vietnam] we're voting for the cheapest way that we can prevent the occurrence of something that would be of the most terrible significance to the United States of America, our security!" - Dwight D. Eisenhower, August 4, 1953:

"If we withdrew from Vietnam, the Communists would control Vietnam. Pretty soon Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaya would go." - John F. Kennedy, September 2, 1963

"A retreat by the United States from Vietnam would be a Communist victory, a victory of massive proportions and would lead to World War III." - Richard Nixon, May 1966

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST:

George W. Bush, in Hanoi: "Mr. President, thank you very much for your hospitality. Laura and I have been struck by the friendliness of the people of Vietnam. In our drive through this beautiful city we were pleased to see thousands of your citizens with smiles on their faces. And we're so grateful. I've been reading and studying about your country and I have seen now firsthand the great vibrancy and the excitement that's taking place in Vietnam. You're like a young tiger, and I look forward to continuing to work to make sure our bilateral relations are close. And thank you for hosting APEC. And thank you for hosting a dinner for us tonight, we're really looking forward to it." - George W. Bush, November 17, 2006 in Hanoi, Vietnam

[neoconrcrazy]

You all have become a sad representation of fair and balanced news.

Posted by bluqe127


welcome to real world ! it doesn't get any better no matter how hard you pray.....

you didn't want this, we didn't want this - so please think it over - how in heavens name did we arrive at this ?

[rafterman1]

===What is ALWAYS missing from these debates is any discussion of the future - unless one of you has access to the "MoveOn.org time machine"===

Then let's look to the past. History has shown time after time that you cannot interfere in some else's civil war or get in between religious conflicts. We have both those things going on in Iraq. Wishful thinking isn't going to turn this around and eventually, reality is going to have to set in - that sometimes even the US loses and we have to accept that's a possibility. The time of standing armies invading other coutries and getting away with it scott free are over. Resistance groups have become too dedicated and too well armed to be defeated by force. Not just in Iraq, but all around the world. Only a political solution is going to save Iraq. And as long as the US is there, a political solution will not happen.

These aren't chess pieces on a board. While we d1ck around with arguing about how if we broke it, we bought it, real people are dying real, horrifc deaths, limbs are getting blown off and minds are being severely screwed up. Can we just get up and leave? You bet we can. If the decision to go to war (and create the chaos that wars bring) can be made and launched so easily, then we better be dam* well able to up and leave equally as easily too.

[the74blaster]

Posted by fredgrad2000

What is ALWAYS missing from these debates is any discussion of the future.

I agree with this statement and I share the frustration of many posters in regards to our incompetent leadership. However, the Iraq problem is so large it will take years to fix and any plan that does not include significant international participation will likely fail.

However, before the U.S. can build a meaningful coalition of nations we need to retore credibility in our leadership both domestically and internationally.

I believe the first step in solving this problem will be taken after Bushs term ends or when he is removed from office. Only then will our new president have the chance to build international trust in our foriegn policy and hopefully earn our trust as well. Once that is accoplished we can start building a meaningful international coalition to address Iraq.

I also agree that a quick withdrawl will lead to a full blown civil war with the possibility of becoming a regional was since Iraqs neighbors have conflicting interests in its future.

However, we also have to recognize that it may no longer be possible to obtain the desired outcome in Iraq. If this becomes reality, we are better to let the middle east resolve the problem and support their efforts to insure their success.

[bluqe127]

As usual,CBS is unable to give us anything that comes close to honest evaluation of the days happenings.
You have your own anti- administration warped and twisted agenda, and that unfortunately comes nowhere near the truth.
You all have become a sad representation of fair and balanced news.

[dallison7]

"I agree that invading Iraq was a mistake"

(THEN)

"We have seen the SAME posts on here for at least 2 years now"

Posted by fredgrad2000



I personally find this incredibly amusing. If one sifts through the various comments of recent we find many of you 'hard-core' right wing followers admitting that 'invading Iraq was a mistake'.

It has certainly not been two years ago that you and others were presenting violent arguments to the contrary. When confronted with the idea that this war was a mistake, you would go on the attack.

Sir/Madam, it has been more like two weeks than two years! What has happened to change your mind, and now, is this 'Move-On.Org time machine' thing you have concocted the best you can do?

[iceman_1960]

RE: Post by fredgrad2000 at 11:04 AM : Apr 29, 2007

We've heard elaborate Domino Theories before, as a justification for continuing to lose American lives and waste American tax dollars in foreign quagmires far from home.

They were the mainstay of the "stay the course" crowd in Vietnam.

Won't get fooled again.

[iceman_1960]

"What is ALWAYS missing from these debates is any discussion of the future - unless one of you has access to the "MoveOn.org time machine" - continual ad nauseam complaint over George Bush and the Iraq War DOES NOTHING!! I agree that invading Iraq was a mistake, but it is NOT a mistake that can be corrected simply by reversing the bad initial decision."
- Posted by fredgrad2000 at 10:57 AM : Apr 29, 2007

In this case, reversing the bad decision is the only way to correct it, and it is what will inevitably happen.

The Iraqi government will be given a deadline (it may not be called that, but that's what it will be) and it will be up to the Iraqis after that, with U.S. financial and arms support, to win or lose the fight on thsie own.

That will happen. It's too late now to whine about the consequences in terms of terrorism. It's a waste of time to whine about that now.

As for the ad nauseam attacks on Bush and Cheney, try to remember what it was like when Bill Clinton was president. The attacks on his personally went on ad nauseam also.

That comes with the job of President.

[fredgrad2000]

CONT'D...now that doesn't mean Bush's current strategy will work or that the answer to what I bring up is to stay there in the same capacity we're in now forever...that's not logical either, especially if, once we have the full "surge" in place, it is doing nothing. But we better be preparing our allies to duke it out with Iran's Iraqi Hezbollah chapter (Sadr and his Mahdi Army) and Al Qaeda. Because if we left today, Sadr and his Iranian mullah backers would gain control in Hezbollah style of Southern and Central Iraq; Al Qaeda would be free to roam and plan in Western Iraq, and the one functioning area of Iraq (the Kurdish zone) would be assaulted by terrorists, the Turks, and quite possibly the Iranians. An Iraq controlled nominally by the Central Bank of Terror and a Hezbollah satellite that countenances Al Qaeda is far worse than Iraq under Saddam!! Now, because we caused this with a bad war and truly incompetent post-war management doesn't mean we can just ignore now the mess we have created and will leave behind, that is far more of a national security threat going forward than Saddam's Iraq was.

[fredgrad2000]

What is ALWAYS missing from these debates is any discussion of the future - unless one of you has access to the "MoveOn.org time machine" - continual ad nauseam complaint over George Bush and the Iraq War DOES NOTHING!! I agree that invading Iraq was a mistake, but it is NOT a mistake that can be corrected simply by reversing the bad initial decision. What in the name of God does Bush's success as a CEO, namecalling Bush or Cheney (oooh, soo smart with "Shrub" and "Darth Cheney" - SO impressed with your brilliance there), or arguing about the ROE have to do with SOLVING the problem at hand or even recognizing the real problem that has developed from the poor decision to invade, and more importantly, to do so with a TERRIBLE plan for the post-invasion period...and it was TERRIBLE. We have seen the SAME posts on here for at least 2 years now; never are they forward-looking, always about stuff none of us (except you MoveOn.org time machine users that won't share with the rest of us!) can change. What we leave in charge and in Iraq if a pull-out was tomorrow would be worse that what we removed in terms of Islamic extremism and amenity to terrorism. PERIOD.