Comments on: Full Steam Ahead On "100 Hours" Express

House Approves Minimum Wage Hike; Thursday Vote On Stem Cells

[davidlar2]

My point is that it does hurt the economy. Without finding the exact documents I cited before, look at various stories in www.cato.org, www.economist.com, www.heritage.org, or for a Swedish perspective on this, www.timbro.se.

I am arguing for less government involvement in the economy- both against corporate subsidies and tax breaks as well as against a minimum wage. I don't want the government mandating salary increases and redistributing money from the rich to others. Not only did this not work (look at Sweden, see previous reference), but it is not the type of society I want to live in.

And I want to emphasize that I don't have a high salary. I care more about a well functioning transparent economic system with more freedom and less government micromanagement than I do about equality of income distribution and as someone around the median income, am not saying this from personal interest.

I am going to sign off soon- have been repeating myself too much.

[nyckate]

WOW -- in less than a month Pelosi has gotten through Homseland Security measure which the GOP congress couldn't do in 5 years and now minimum wage which GOP congress refused to do for 10 years.

Tom DeLay and his poodle Denny Hastert were truly a blight on this nation of ours.

[davidlar2]

Looking at the Economic Policy Institute page, they present a view that is controversial (you can find evidence for the opposite on www.cato.org) dealing with real wages and dealing with job loss. I agree that it is a good thing to read both sides of the controversy and I recommend that others do too.

However, even there, there is no statement that increasing the minimum wage will not decrease economic growth. There is a lot of data indicating that it does, both from the American and from European economies.

[pakaal]

Also, davidlar2, you said you linked to evidence that artificially high salaries for the unskilled doesn't lead to higher economic growth than market-based wages over the long term. (Sorry, only a couple minutes more until I'm off lunch, can't search for the post.)

If that's true, then there's not much argument left for sticking to what you call "market-based" wages. If as you say it doesn't hurt the economy, and it gives minimum wage earners more cash, everybody wins.

[tejasdemo]

David,

How did you pay for your education (if you dont mind me asking) ?

[tejasdemo]

David,

Where is the argument that giving business owners tax breaks and shielding them from higher wages helps the overall economy ?

Wages have been flat for over a decade (including the Clinton years).

Housing has been up only due to the relaxing of financing rules which had to occur because nobody made enough money at the their jobs anymore to actually afford one.

Now, wages are still flat. Foreclosures are at the highest level they have been at since the Depression.

It's time to try it the other way. Raise wages for the average worker. Raise taxes on the wealthiest.

[pakaal]

davidlar2, the Economic Policy Institute has a lot of info debunking the myths that are circulating about effects of minimum wage increase. It's a good starting point.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwagefacts

[pakaal]

And yes, you can argue that investing helps the economy by boosting company profit potential (the companies that are being invested in), but it doesn't typically help the manufacturing industry or the very people we're discussing here - the minimum wage earners. Nor does it even help the lower-end workers in those companies they're investing in, since execs are the ones eating the lion's share of the profits.

[davidlar2]

Show me the evidence that artificially high salaries for the unskilled leads to higher economic growth than market-based wages over the long term? I have given links pointing to the contrary.

[tejasdemo]

David,

Not necessarily, but they sure understand BS when they hear it and they have been hearing it for a loooong time.

Raise it higher and give the millionaires a big tax increase for New Years !

[pakaal]

three-o-six, your "minimum wage" example is (as you know, I'm sure) quite oversimplified. For example, and your 50 cent profit all goes back into "purchasing power". In reality, one big factor people seem to be afraid of talking about is wage disparity. Now it's my turn to oversimplify. In the 1950s top-level execs received approximately 20 times the salary of the workers below them on the totem pole. As of now, upper-level management profit has grown to 100 times that of the middle- and low-end worker. The math should be pretty clear on that one. And another myth to dispel is that the 100 times amount goes back into "the economy". Folks with money don't go out and buy stuff, they invest (the smart thing to do, of course). Meanwhile those at the bottom don't have money to buy or invest either.

[tejasdemo]

Yea, business owners need to do something than just take money. They need to earn it too !

The hell with them. Raise it up to $50/ hour and make every business owner scrub the toilets at midnight once per month.

[davidlar2]

"You ever been poor , then don't speak."

So only poor people understand macroeconomics?

[tejasdemo]

Minimum wage increases help all of us. Yes !!!!

The hell with tax breaks for millionaires.

[davidlar2]

clemearl

And why are you poor? Is it because you have a low salary or a high cost of living? If you took your salary to many other countries (depending upon what you do) including those that produce the same thing you do, you could live like a king. It is important to analyze the source of your problem and the effects of any "solution" before mindlessly embracing one.

And yes, I have been poor, but I got an education and worked hard.

Do you really think that inflation and reduced economic growth are good for the poor (or America in general) in the long run?

[pakaal]

BellaL said "Stop with the giving already. People don't need to be "given" to. They can negotiate their own wage, that would empower them."

I'm a bit surprised BellaL. You're playing with my words, specifically "giving". Who's going to be able to walk into a business that's offering a minimum wage and negotiate $2.50 over the minimum? They'd laugh you out of the office before offering the minimum to the next person through the door - who will probably then take what they can get.

three-oh-six, I agree that inflation has been ongoing - that's why Congress (despite denying minimums increases to everyone else) keeps voting themselves pay raises. Your argument seems to be that 'since inflation is ongoing, why raise minimums to $7.25 since it's not enough?" My answer is "it's a start". Better to tie federal minimum increases to inflation so that from here on in we can at least maintain pace with inflation, but I think most people at minimum would be thankful for any raise.

[clemearl]

You ever been poor , then don't speak.. i have work for several employers , who would not pay over min. wage, because they did not have too.
so the poor people only suffer because people are to greety to help their fellow man..

[davidlar2]

So, politicians know better than either the law of supply and demand or the business owners and workers themselves who agree on a wage how much the workers are worth? I guess I should be glad we have such omniscient politicians. However, somehow I'm not convinced.

[three-o-six]

What a bunch of idiots - minimum wage increases only hurt the poor in the long run!!

[clemearl]

He we go again, all the business owners whining,
If the business owners would cut back on their over head (which is them)and share the wealth everyone could make it..But, NOOOOO , all I hear is we have to lay people off to make it work, If you work hard you should get paid for what you are worth. Business owners today pass the buck, and want everyone else to work and they want to collect the money.. Get off your Butts, and do some work, so you can pay your employees.
ENOUGH SAID!!!