The ongoing strategy in Iraq of training, equipping, and handing battle space to the Iraqi Army IS WORKING !!
Since no mainstream media source wants to tell us that we are indeed KILLING and CAPTURING the enemy, I compile the numbers myself.
The results show increasing success: September = 659 October = 791 November = 860 December = 957
To date in January, at least 268 terrorists or insurgents have been dilled or captured. With that pace, at month's end, over 1100 will have been killed or captured.
Not to mention the tremendous increase of tips from Iraqi civilians that are enabling the military and police forces to conduct successful operations. During the summer of 2006, about 4,200 tips a month occurred. In October and November, the number of tips per month exceeded 7,200.
What I want to know is how do you liberals define victory?
Bush's bumbling surge is "stay the course," plus, adding troops, adding casualties and adding cost with the same strategic goal, "win." The definition of "win" and the "reasons" for the war are the only things that have changed in this administration's prosecution of the war.
Someone should inform the driver of this bus that changing maps does not put us on a different road. Those honorable, courageous soldiers killed in the new way forward will, unfortunately be exactly as dead as those killed staying the course, freeing Iraq and any thing else they may choose to call it. The only thing changing will be the "just a number" death toll which will continue climbing. Am I the only one who wonders what good things one or more of these brave soldiers might have done in their lives if they hadn't been killed in this war of choice?
juhindson1 if only someone in the pentagon had the ballsto mention some of your points to the delusional decider. The 8 oz glass containing 50% of its capacity is neither half-full nor half-empty to him. It's 37 gallons in his world. Go figure.
I've read lost of comments here without noticing any that support Bush's policies. Is it possible that the 28% (or whatever) of Americans that support Bush can't read or can't write? Come on people, speak up!
Thanks for your post. The idea of involving the Arab League and moderate Arab states is a particularly interesting idea. I had not thought about that one before. The Arab League have been surprisingly quiet on any kind of stabilisation package for Iraq. Is it that they cannot get their act together? Or that the administration wants to keep them at arms length?
Your other points are sound. In the context they actually seem like no-brainers. I therefore struggle to understand why the administration cannot see the discipline, focus and structure they would bring to the disengagement process.
RATIONALE FOR STAYING THE COURSE In reading the posts, it appears that there are many reasons offered for a troop increase and staying until the *job is done.*
1. The US must have victory. If *victory* is the forced stabilization of Iraq this will take 800K to a million troops staying in Iraq indefintely. 2. Iraq is not Vietnam. This is true it is worse than Vietnam. In Vietnam the US was on one side. In Iraq it is fighting three sides - Shia Sunii and Al Qaeda. 3. Leaving Iraq would be like leaving WWII. Iraq, unlike Germany was not invading the rest of the world. In fact it had learned its lesson after Kuwait. 4. We need to *sacrifice* to be free. Yes, but sacrificing more Treasure in Iraq is not improving our freedom. 5. To honor those that have died. see #1 6. Because conquering Iraq is a prequel to the second coming of Chris - refer to Pat Robertson, and God. 7. To defeat the terrorists. But the Iraq war is emboldening the terrorists, and increasing their numbers 8. To make America safer. See #7 9. Oil. Maybe, see #11 10. Spread Democracy. Democracy is earned through internal struggle and cannot be imposed - too many examples to mention. 11. Corporate greed and war profiteering. Possibly. 11. A PERFECT STORM of hubris, arrogance, incompetence, corporate greed and profiteering, and religious views. Maybe
The *new* strategy to be announced next week is DOA.
It should be obvious by now that Bush has little or no comprehension of what is reality. In the overall scheme of things, an increase of up to 20,000 soldiers will have little impact on the situation unless he has found a new meaning to "victory" that this additional troop level will help to achieve. However, knowing the incompetence of this man, we should not hold our breath. America under Bush is slowly but surely descending into a police state right before the eyes of the American people and the world. He has now given himself "powers" to open mails. Where will he stop! If nothing is done to curb his megalomaniac tendencies, future generations would ask why we allowed it to happen. Fear is Bush's weapon and the public, by and large buys it! If freedom can be so arbitrarily traded for fear by the fear mongers, America has lost, the terrorists have won. It is a shame and a tragedy that Bush has yet to be impeached and removed.
In addition to the aforementioned, I would make it clear to Israel that we will not tolerate a perpetuation of their holding the Palestinians prisoners in their own land. I would put Israel on notice that the 3 billion American dollars we hand over to them each year would be contingent on their effectively pursuing a peace agreement with the Palestinians assuring the Palestinians of their own sovereignty and then back it up.
Were it mine to do, I would take the following steps:
First I would make it clear to the Iraqi government that the free ride is over. I would set out realistic yet firm dates for when they would be responsible for their own security sector by sector and hold them to it by telling them we would be withdrawing from those sectors on the specified dates. I would not make the timetable public so as to not complicate their task.
Secondly, I would address the U.N. with the decision to put the world on notice that our involvement would be ending in Iraq and that the Iraqi government would be required to assume responsibility for securing their own country and making peace with their different factions.
Thirdly, I would encourage the Arab league to get involved in helping the Iraqi government in meeting it's obligations. This would allow Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, Kuwait and other moderate Arab countries help offset Syria's and Iran's designs on what form the country of Iraq will develop into.
Fourthly, I would augment the moderate Arab states with assistance in their mission of helping Iraq with military, diplomatic, and/or strategic support and retire from Iraq as specified in the timetable.
Bush Fails by Ignoring Experience %u2014 Here He Goes Again
Bush sold the Iraq War by disregarding intelligence that said there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. He ignored the advice written by his own father that invading Iraq would be disastrous. He ignored the wisdom of the Germans and French. Everyone else was right, but he made the wrong decision nonetheless.
William Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", describes the blunder Hitler made by replacing orders from his generals with his own, thereby making things worse for Germany in World War II. In the Vietnam War, President Johnson repeatedly resorted to surges in U.S. troop levels, thereby in each case increasing the casualties on both sides. Bush renounced advice of the Baker-Hamilton report as unrealistic. Now he is replacing Generals with ones who will abide by his intent to ignore the vote of America's electorate, the advice of Congress, and the experiences of Hitler and Johnson. For the benefit of all, let's stop Bush, who clearly intends to stay this disastrous course. Is there any way without removing both Bush and Cheney from office? Cheney proposes expanding Bush's war by attacking Iran.
You have a military background. What are your thoughts on the best way forward? More resources into training of Iraqi's? Timetable for withdrawal? Milestones for our continued support? Redeployment to the periphery? Immediate withdrawal? Talking to the Iran & Syria?
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Since no mainstream media source wants to tell us that we are indeed KILLING and CAPTURING the enemy, I compile the numbers myself.
The results show increasing success:
September = 659
October = 791
November = 860
December = 957
To date in January, at least 268 terrorists or insurgents have been dilled or captured. With that pace, at month's end, over 1100 will have been killed or captured.
Not to mention the tremendous increase of tips from Iraqi civilians that are enabling the military and police forces to conduct successful operations. During the summer of 2006, about 4,200 tips a month occurred. In October and November, the number of tips per month exceeded 7,200.
What I want to know is how do you liberals define victory?
Someone should inform the driver of this bus that changing maps does not put us on a different road. Those honorable, courageous soldiers killed in the new way forward will, unfortunately be exactly as dead as those killed staying the course, freeing Iraq and any thing else they may choose to call it. The only thing changing will be the "just a number" death toll which will continue climbing. Am I the only one who wonders what good things one or more of these brave soldiers might have done in their lives if they hadn't been killed in this war of choice?
juhindson1 if only someone in the pentagon had the ballsto mention some of your points to the delusional decider. The 8 oz glass containing 50% of its capacity is neither half-full nor half-empty to him. It's 37 gallons in his world. Go figure.
Thanks for your post. The idea of involving the Arab League and moderate Arab states is a particularly interesting idea. I had not thought about that one before. The Arab League have been surprisingly quiet on any kind of stabilisation package for Iraq. Is it that they cannot get their act together? Or that the administration wants to keep them at arms length?
Your other points are sound. In the context they actually seem like no-brainers. I therefore struggle to understand why the administration cannot see the discipline, focus and structure they would bring to the disengagement process.
In reading the posts, it appears that there are many reasons offered for a troop increase and staying until the *job is done.*
1. The US must have victory. If *victory* is the forced stabilization of Iraq this will take 800K to a million troops staying in Iraq indefintely.
2. Iraq is not Vietnam. This is true it is worse than Vietnam. In Vietnam the US was on one side. In Iraq it is fighting three sides - Shia Sunii and Al Qaeda.
3. Leaving Iraq would be like leaving WWII. Iraq, unlike Germany was not invading the rest of the world. In fact it had learned its lesson after Kuwait.
4. We need to *sacrifice* to be free. Yes, but sacrificing more Treasure in Iraq is not improving our freedom.
5. To honor those that have died. see #1
6. Because conquering Iraq is a prequel to the second coming of Chris - refer to Pat Robertson, and God.
7. To defeat the terrorists. But the Iraq war is emboldening the terrorists, and increasing their numbers
8. To make America safer. See #7
9. Oil. Maybe, see #11
10. Spread Democracy. Democracy is earned through internal struggle and cannot be imposed - too many examples to mention.
11. Corporate greed and war profiteering. Possibly.
11. A PERFECT STORM of hubris, arrogance, incompetence, corporate greed and profiteering, and religious views. Maybe
The *new* strategy to be announced next week is DOA.
Were it mine to do, I would take the following steps:
First I would make it clear to the Iraqi government that the free ride is over. I would set out realistic yet firm dates for when they would be responsible for their own security sector by sector and hold them to it by telling them we would be withdrawing from those sectors on the specified dates. I would not make the timetable public so as to not complicate their task.
Secondly, I would address the U.N. with the decision to put the world on notice that our involvement would be ending in Iraq and that the Iraqi government would be required to assume responsibility for securing their own country and making peace with their different factions.
Thirdly, I would encourage the Arab league to get involved in helping the Iraqi government in meeting it's obligations. This would allow Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, Kuwait and other moderate Arab countries help offset Syria's and Iran's designs on what form the country of Iraq will develop into.
Fourthly, I would augment the moderate Arab states with assistance in their mission of helping Iraq with military, diplomatic, and/or strategic support and retire from Iraq as specified in the timetable.
Bush sold the Iraq War by disregarding intelligence that said there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. He ignored the advice written by his own father that invading Iraq would be disastrous. He ignored the wisdom of the Germans and French. Everyone else was right, but he made the wrong decision nonetheless.
William Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", describes the blunder Hitler made by replacing orders from his generals with his own, thereby making things worse for Germany in World War II. In the Vietnam War, President Johnson repeatedly resorted to surges in U.S. troop levels, thereby in each case increasing the casualties on both sides. Bush renounced advice of the Baker-Hamilton report as unrealistic. Now he is replacing Generals with ones who will abide by his intent to ignore the vote of America's electorate, the advice of Congress, and the experiences of Hitler and Johnson. For the benefit of all, let's stop Bush, who clearly intends to stay this disastrous course. Is there any way without removing both Bush and Cheney from office? Cheney proposes expanding Bush's war by attacking Iran.
You have a military background. What are your thoughts on the best way forward? More resources into training of Iraqi's? Timetable for withdrawal? Milestones for our continued support? Redeployment to the periphery? Immediate withdrawal? Talking to the Iran & Syria?