Comments on: Iraq Plan Seeks Up To 20,000 More Troops

CBS News Exclusive: Details On The Defense Secretary's Recommendations To President

[bellal-2009]

Societies like people need a chance to mature. A country's citizens unfamiliar with its principles are understandably at a loss
Posted by defirststate at 01:44 AM : Jan 06, 2007

This got me thinking, can you imagine the average American suddenly waking up in Taliban controlled Afghanistan or in Iran. Imagine an American woman trying to get through one day walking behind her husband in a head to toe veiled burqua. Most of us would be decapitated by the end of the day.

[specimenfred]

REPIGS VOTING FOR MORE DEATH, NO SURPRISE

[defirststate]

In the second lin, its principles should have been democracy's principles, my keyboard got it wrong LOL

[defirststate]

Societies like people need a chance to mature. A country's citizens unfamiliar with its principles are understandably at a loss. Democracy requires at the very least that a majority of the population have reached the point where they desire or demand it. Our nation reached that critical mass in the 18th century. But we were at least familiar with common law since the magna carta. The reformation and the political split from the church were shared. Our founding fathers didn't wake up one day and say let's create a democratic republic this morning and check the crops after lunch.

The Iraqis knew well the boot of the oppressor, but they don't have the background in their culture to lead to democracy. They may learn it, but an autocratic regime is more comfortable to them as a known relationship. Drastic social change is alarming. It took our founders many years to finally reach the point where the Declaration could be born. Many citizens here weren't for independence until the tipping point was reached in 1776. The intervening years until our Constitution were chaotic to be charitable, but they argued it our and we are the fortunate heirs to their effort. When the Iraqi people will tolerate nothing but democracy, they will get it. At least our debacle has planted the seeds of greedom and exposed them to the concepts. The seed of liberty, once planted can but grow in its own time.

[defirststate]

lieberman18, "Remember what Clinton chose to do - and remember too, that Bush did enlist. He didn't seek any way out." You are factually accurate that Clinton went the deferrment route, as did Cheney, several times, however W's enlistment might be considered a highly sought after way out. Enlistment in the Texas Air Guard was closed. It was very popular since it was unlikely to travel to S.E.Asia. W somehow gained entry. There were paperwork gimmicks along the way. 41 is a father, if he could do more than most, W was his son, and it was a long time ago. Did Clinton's educational background work to the benefit of the US more than W's plane jockeying, who knows?

In fairness, though, I think one should consider the atmosphere in the Bush White House before 9/11. From the 9/11 commissions report and Congressional testimony, there were people who sought repeatedly to discuss the danger of terrorist attacks. I don't have the quote at hand, but paraphrased there was a statement that al_Qaeda and terrorism had better not be mentioned again. I will try to find it. Had the mood been different, what good might those discussions have done? Preventing the discussion can hardly be considered a positive.

[j-whitman]

Good night,, keep watching the news, we are certainly not getting the truth from this administration or the GOP about any issue.

[j-whitman]

emtak,, What we see today is the same thing we saw in WW2 = Where free trading by our own politicians actually cost American lives for no other reason but profit.... Today it's magnified, & our great GOP tells us they are more patriotic for doing so.

[mh4cbs1]

Bush and Cheney need JAIL Time for LYING us into this Disaster of Death and Destruction.

Now these chickenhawk NeoCOns want to Sacrifice more middleclass kids to their imperial War of Terror.

Read PNAC paper of 2000, the NeoCOn vision of a new world order. Look who signed it. Cheney is Bush puppet master. Both deserve impeachment and Jail for their Lies. Even PBS Frontline last week provided the tip of the iceberg of the Lies and Distortions these sick NeoCons used to scare and fool Americans into supporting their Iraq Invasion.

Oh yeah, Where's Osama? Anyone remember that name?

[j-whitman]

emtak,,, I was a republican back when Reagan ran for gov. I even helped at fundrasing dinners... I will never call myself republican again & will switch from dems if we get another one like Bush,, GOP's entire problems lie with no regulation or accountability and bending our laws to thier favor & ignoring others they don't like,,, it took me years to figure it out.

[emtak1]

j-whitman

yeah, I was impressed with her speech. Its just that after several years of happy-speeches and little movement on either side I don't pay much attention to what our representatives say. Its more about what they do.

Bush did do something. It was just the wrong thing. He was incredibly rigid and mindnumbingly uninventive in his prosection of the war.

Its taken him 4 years to change his first generals.By now Lincoln had gone through 4 or five generals and finnaly found Grant. Unlike Bush, Licoln was not "loyal" LOL. Except maybe to the American people.


I'm a republican, but I can't justify allegiance to my party above an allegiance to my 21-year old neighbors who've been shredded by IUDs.

Bush has led very poorly in matters of war.

[j-whitman]

Looks like Lieberman "Cut & Ran"

[emtak1]

j-whitman:

Can citizens of other countries really make Iraq sane and stable?

The definition of Iraq is a country made up of Iraqis, people who live there.

Its is the same idea that forged a bunch of hard fighting freedom-fighter into the United States

[j-whitman]

emtak,,, I say give Pelosi a chance,,, After the last 6 years of bad management of our government, she will make this war & our nation a bit more managable... But these republicans can't stop attacking her as they stand before our flag... So much for giving a fine example of democracy to other nations.

[radiob-2009]

j-whitman pretty much my point is that in order to achieve the goal of sovereignity it would require an international force. No country is willing to commit to the levels of troops needed.

[j-whitman]

Lieberman,,, You still here ??
Support The Troops with "Pay As You Go" Instead Of Hidden Debt...

[emtak1]

im just a skeptic. : )

[emtak1]

my main concern is a different one, an often overlooked one...

how much power does congress have anymore? Pelosi's talk is Pelosi's talk.

will congress have the integrity to stand up to the president for their consituents.

or will they lay down as he walks over them?

[j-whitman]

Truth ??? Bush still is locked into his own bumper sticker slogans,, He's totally out to lunch.

[j-whitman]

Radio,,, I don't see how anyone can say any kind of win is possible without bringing in the neighboring countries, & adding at least that much in troop numbers, which Bush won't do either. Even then I doubt if you can call it a win in any respect.

[emtak1]

SHURCH4TRUTH:

"There is no way that this administration would have gone into this war if it had done its homework"

--your assuming they didn't already know what the real truth was when leading America to war