Comments on: Stem Cell Opponents To Air Celebrity Ad

To Rebut Ad Featuring Michael J. Fox, World Series Pitcher Speaks Out Against Missouri Amendment

[zimmcomm]

It is also important to note that the Michael J. Fox ad is for specific political candidates - in MO, MN and MD. The "celebrity" ad was produced only to encourage people to vote against Amendment 2 in Missouri - not for or against any political candidate. They are two entirely different animals and not related to each other.

[zimmcomm]

JPark971 -
The "change, repeal or modify" wording comes from the actual amendment.
NOTICE: You are advised that the proposed constitutional amendment may change,
repeal, or modify by implication or may be construed by some persons to change, repeal
or modify by implication, the following provisions of the Constitution of Missouri %u2013
Sections 2, 10, 14, and 32 of Article I; Section 1 of Article II; Sections 1, 21, 22, 23, 28,
36, 39, 40, 41, and 42 of Article III; Sections 1, 14, 36(a), 37, 37(a), 39, and 52 of Article
IV; Sections 5, 14, 17, 18, and 23, and subsection 17 of Section 27 of Article V; Sections
18(b), 18(c), 18(d), 18(k), 18(m), 19(a), 20, 31, 32(a), and 32(b) of Article VI; Section
9(a) of Article IX; Sections 1, 6, 11(a), 11(d), and 11(f) of Article X; and Section 3 or
Article XI.
I did not make that up - it's right there in the actual amendment. And no, it is not impossible. That is what constitutional amendments do - they amend the constitution, i.e., CHANGE it.

[sashay03-2009]

It's nice that these athletes and celebrities have their good health while expressing their opinions on the subject. I would like to know their thoughts if they were one of the unfortunate suffering from Parkinson's or spending their lives in a wheelchairs instead of on the baseball field or in front of the camera.

[votenoon2]

pakaal, you did not finish your homework. You have to read the whole 21xx word document and connect the terms... not to mention lookup up a few on your own:

38d 6(5) ' "Human embryonic stem cell research," also reffered to as "early stem cell research", means any scientific or medical research involving human stem cells derived from in vitro fertilization blastocysts or from somatic cell nuclear transfer. For the purpose of this section, human embryonic stem cell research does not include stem cell clinical trials. '

When you lookup "somatic cell nuclear transfer" (SCNT) you will find that this is the technical term for cloning! More specifically Therapeutic/Research Cloning. This still produces a human embryo, i.e., human LIFE.

For a more detailed analysis, please see http://www.moroundtable.org/pdfs/full.pdf.

[speaksforgod]

I would have a thoughtful, well developed opinion on this issue, but I'm too blinded by the rapture.

[speaksforgod]

I'm glad that Jeff Suppan took the time out from his intense focus and preparation for tonight's start to read and understand all of the ammendment in its entirety -- then go film a public service announcement. It would have been wrong of him to make a snap judgement based upon the bad advice of others and totally misinterpret the entire bill -- but he wouldn't have done that.

[bellal-2009]

mickey22, you used my exact word trickery. Thank you for explaining. Too bad the article didn't use someone with your expertise.

[bellal-2009]

Well, they had me until the partial list of supporting organizations. Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation and Muscular Dystrophy Assoc. Uh, sorry folks not buying it, these are reputable organizations. What kind of trickery is going on here.

[pakaal]

Yeah, I know. It's all Clinton's fault anyway.

[jpark971]

Pakaal!! Don't confuse them with facts!! That isn't the neocon forte.

[pakaal]

OK, since CBS has a link to the actual amendment, I read the document for any references to cloning. There are two references:

38d 2-1 "No person may clone or attempt to clone a human being."

38d 6-2 "Clone or attempt to clone a human being" means to implant in a uterus or attempt to implant in a uterus anything other than the product of fertilization of an egg of a human female by a sperm of a human male for the purpose of initiating a pregnancy that could result in the creation of a human fetus, or the birth of a human being.

I'm sure someone will explain how a document that specifically says "no cloning of humans" is being touted as a document that supports cloning of humans....

[jpark971]

Please, cindyzimmer, tell me how a law would "change, repeal, or modify" at least 45 provisions of the Constitution of Missouri. Especially since that is impossible. Oh, and to make it even tougher, try doing it without lying.

[jpark971]

You Missourians are coming close to being the laughing stock of the nation. Good thing you have Kansas as a neighbor.

[zimmcomm]

To kludge42:
In Missouri, this one amendment would "change, repeal, or modify" at least 45 provisions of the Constitution of Missouri to make the creation of human beings for scientific research a constitutional right in the state. It would indeed "overthrow all of the other laws, amendments, and referenda that ban human cloning" - of which there are currently none in Missouri. That is what this amendment seeks to do - enshrine in the constitution the right to do this research so that no other law, action or regulation can change it.

As for blastocysts currently being destroyed, scientists do want to use IVF leftovers for research, but that does not hold the kind of potential for BIG money that cloning does. The product of cloned humans can be PATENTED to use for drug testing, for example.

Make no mistake - this is about MONEY. The proponents of this amendment have spent $26 MILLION on trying to get this passed - more than any other political campaign in the history of the state! Do you honestly believe the biotech industry is spending this kind of money for the good of mankind? Call me cynical, but there is HUGE money in the medical research field - for doing research, not for finding cures.

[fkjr60440]

Embryonic Versus Adult Stem Cells

Most US citizens are unaware of the difference between and the scientific and economic merits of ebmryonic versus adult stem cell research. Liberals argue on moral grounds that millons of tax dollars should be spent on embryonic stem cells regardless of its scientific, medical economic and technological merits. Others argue that funding for research should be based on scientific, technological, and economic calculations. Hence they support adult stem cell research.

A. Current State of Research (Raw Data)
100% of all NIH approved stem cell clinical trials (308) on live human subjects were those involving adult stem cell research. Source: www.clinicaltrials.gov on 8/29/2005 at 2:45 PM

B. NIH Acknowledgement That Adult Stem Cells Have More Promise and Scientific Merit
Adult stem cells . . . are currently the only type of stem cell . . . used to treat human diseases . . . for over 40 years . . . to treat leukemia, lymphoma and several inherited blood disorders[, and recently] . . . diabetes and . . . kidney cancer. From http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/health.asp

C. Embyronic Stem Cells May Be Obsolete
Argonne National Laboratory scientists have made a breakthrough in adult stem cell research that would make the need for embryonic stem cell research obsolete and unnecessary. From http://www.anl.gov/Media_Center/logos21-2/stem01.htm)

[kludge42]

One amendment is not going to overthrow all of the other laws, amendments, and referenda that ban human cloning. In addition, why would scientist need to go through the costly and time consuming steps of creating embryos, when donated ones should adequately fullfill any needs for research? As it stands, blastocysts are currently being destroyed. Whether they are life, or not, they're being destroyed. Why not put them to good use? If you can save a million people, or more, isn't that reason enough to not throw them away? Jesus healed people of disease and horrible afflictions; shouldn't we do everything possible to continue that work of healing?

[zimmcomm]

First, it is wrong to call the people airing this new ad "stem cell opponents." No one is against using adult stem cells, embilical cord blood, bone marrow, etc. to find cures. In fact, these methods are already showing great promise but biotech firms are holding out for cloning to do human research. That's what this amendment is all about. It absolutely DOES NOT ban human cloning - only the new definition of human cloning in the amendment, which is actually IMPLANTING or trying to implant a cloned human in a uterus. It does not ban implanting a cloned human in an artificial womb. This amendment provides blanket protection for the biotechnology industry under the guise of "banning" human cloning. It requires a lawyer to decipher the wording, but it was written by lawyers for the biotechnology industry and it is indeed designed to mislead voters. It is a "pig in a poke" and has no place in the Missouri constitution.

[malk_69]

Dear BoatDoc61

Assuming you're directing your comment at me.

I speak for what I believe in, as is my right. And you speak for what you believe in, which is yours.

When God created man, supposing you believe in God, he didn't create us in a laboratory.

[malk_69]

"Where do researchers get human embryos? Embryos can either be made via REPRODUCTION -- merging sperm and egg -- or by CLONING. Researchers aren't LIKELY to create an embryo with sperm and egg, but many use fertilized embryos from fertility clinics.

Another way to create an embryo is via a technique called therapeutic CLONING. This technique merges a cell (from the patient who needs the stem cell therapy) with a donor egg. The nucleus is removed from the egg and replaced with the nucleus of the patient's cell.

Both methods -- using EXISTING FERTILIZED EMBRYOS and creating NEW EMBRYOS specifically for research purposes -- are controversial."

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT

Isn't it interesting how many people speak for God and seem to know His mind? I also love raving arguments that if "A" happens that "B" will inevitably follow. If assault rifles are forbidden then hunting rifles and pocket-knives are next. If condoms are distributed it won't lead to "safe-***", only more ***. If Wile E. Coyote jumps off a cliff, all our children will jump off cliffs. Although this amendment SPECIFICALLY MAKES IT AN EXPENSIVE CRIME to either clone or to sell, for financial advantage, any of the disputed tissue - recent posts claim that cloning and selling eggs will come soon after.

What do these posters - especially the ones who speak for God - think about the absolutely true fact that as of right now, and indefinitely if stem cell research isn't conducted - those precious stem cells, which could cure diabetes, Parkinson's and other diseases - are destroyed?