Comments on: Senate Defies Bush On Terror Bill

GOP-Led Committee Approves Detainee Law Opposed By President

[terminalman1-2009]

bush THE LITTLE DICTATOR, WANTS TO CHANGE THE LAWS SO HE CAN ARREST ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH HIM. bush IS A SORRY SACK OF *** WHO SHOULD BE TARRED AND FEATHERED, THEN STAPLE A DUNCE CAP TO HIS HEAD AND RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN ON A RAIL. HE MAKE RICHARD NIXON LOOK LIKE THE BEST PRESIDENT AMERICA HAS EVER HAD.

I can understand John McCain's thinking on the Geneva Conventions and concerned it might get changed on a whim. What I can't understand is that North Vietnam didn't acknowledge the Geneva Conventions much less the card. Does Sen. McCain really think the Taliban and the street thugs we are fighting will honor them? I don't think so. We do not need our hands tied in this war. Whatever needs to be done, with or without combat needs to be done, and the sooner the better. As an ex-Vietnam veteran, I support the presidents decision and the troops.

[nynative1340]

WAKE UP AMERICA!!! Republicans who are opposing Bush on anything are just posturing for the November elections. It was only a few weeks ago that most of them were steadfast behind him.

Let's face it; most politicians in both parties are looking out for own future first. They are well past their prime after 10 or 12 years and should give it up to 'fresh minds.' Too many of them make a career of what should be a temporary job of serving the public good. If they want to make a career of serving their country, they should join the military and serve like real men and women.

[bobgee_1999]

What do we fight to defend? A free country that believes in human rights and has high moral standards. When we cease to be what we fight to defend, then the only reason we fight is blind nationalism---which is exactly how a certain screaming short guy with a ridiculous moustache got Germany to follow him in his quest for global dominion.

[lukebize]

Posted by RonnieHM at 06:21 PM : Sep 14, 2006:

"by torture, I mean actual torture, not fear and discomfort. If you disallow fear and discomfort, then we may as well drop them off at Disneyland, because just being held in prison is known to cause fear and discomfort."

"Fear and discomfort"? Interrogation techniques are quite sophisticated. The line between interrogation and torture is very well-defined. The reason for this is plain: everyone is subject to torture, and it has been around long enough to refine to an objective "art".

The military generally shuns torture because excess tends to extract false and useless information, wasting interrogaters' time and efforts. The techniques used in Abu Ghraib were _not_ recognized by military operations.

Use your head: if you deliberately frighten a deer you are hunting so that he runs into a tangle of barbed wire, cutting himself severely and slowly bleeding to death with each attempt to escape, is that the kind of fear and discomfort to which you refer?

[ronniehm]

Jim, if you think we're just as ruthless, barbaric and uncivilized as the terrorists, how are you able to decide which side to support? And you're right. There ARE reasons why they hate us, but they're really really stupid reasons. The one that stands out is the one they proudly state again and again. We're not all Muslims. You have to hate America pretty badly to think that we're equal to terrorists and deserve to be attacked by them. You won't even hear a Democrat in office say something as stupid as that.

[lukebize]

To all who are interested, part of the legislation Bush wants would completely and retroactively shield him and his associates from any war crimes prosecution for acts he is shown to have already committed, and from any acts he orders in the future.

That is one of the main reasons he thought it important enough to make such a rare trip to Congress to attempt to coerce your elected officials to pass it.

The Bush Administration's proposal would permit use of evidence obtained by abusing prisoners (whether backed up by evidence or not). It would decriminalize war crimes, so that U.S. personnel who engaged in abuse - and senior officials who authorized it - would be let off the hook.

[ronniehm]

Is it really news that John McCain disagrees with Bush on this issue? Anyway, I think the bill should be as tough as possible without permitting torture. And by torture, I mean actual torture, not fear and discomfort. If you disallow fear and discomfort, then we may as well drop them off at Disneyland, because just being held in prison is known to cause fear and discomfort.

[jimc52]

What we are having is a crisis of morality and social values in America. We have to ask ourselves if it is acceptable for America to be as ruthless, barbaric and uncivilized as the terrorists are. If the answer is "Yes," then we have to surrender our self-styled portrayal of being a nation of righteousness before the world.
The terrorists are making us look at our own values. It is always the EASY way out to resort to violence and brutality. There ARE reasons why they hate us and until we recognize those reasons and address them without violence or brutality, we will never win...not before the court of world opinion and not as far as our enemies are concerned. I think we also realize the seriousness of how the administration either breaks the law, narrowly defines it to skirt the law or attempts to modify the law to suit their own purposes without regard for consequences. We all know IF they can do this to the law, there is nothing to stop them from making of our country a totalitarian dictatorship where our own citizens become victemized in the name of national security. The choice is OURS this election day. Do we keep our fundamental democracy or do we vote for dictatorsip?

[clestes-2009]

You know tishpearl, I gave dfass405 the same advice earlier today. Read, then read some more, then think about what you read. Then come talk to me.

[clestes-2009]

uh dfass405 I don't think a majority of Iraqis are happy. I told you not to believe in everything you read. They don't want the US soldiers to leave, that don't mean they are happy.

About Iran, if you think Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt are going to let Iran set off a nuke, guess again. These people have a relationship that goes back thousands of years. We are relative newcomers to them.

The only reason now for Iran's defiance and their silence that because they heartily disapprove of US interfering in their business. They are never going to let an outsider dictate to them. When I say they, I mean middle east countries, Muslims, Islams. They are a big family of intertwining faiths and they sqabble amoung themselves but let an outsider (like USA) of a differing faith get involved, they close down.

Bush should let someone with experience in this area advise him.

[lukebize]

Posted by duffynight at 05:11 PM : Sep 14, 2006:

"I am so happy to see some Republicans standing up to bush's bad take on how to handle the detainee's. And, yes, I am as anxious as anyone else to prosecute someone who wants to kill us."

And, just as important, look who opposed the Bush legislation:

Senator Susan Collins (R-Maine), chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Ms. Collins recently has had occasion to complain bitterly about her committee being kept out of the loop by the Bush/Cheney group, thus effectively reducing the Senate's role in keeping us all safe. This exemplifies Bush's treatment of Congress in general over his two terms: he treats the peoples' representatives as though he has no obligation to them at all.

Even Republicans loyal to Bush are beginning to see what has been obvious to others: Bush politics endangers all of us. He must be stopped.

[nailitinindy]

Dear posted by one american........
I agree Sadaam is a bad man, and did bad things, but there are country's all over this world that do what he's done, and worse. Are we to go into all of them and do what we are doing in Iraq?? How would we like for some other country to come here and tell us there is a better way?......... Their way! We can not fix the world and I'm affraid all we are doing is making the rest of the world see us as interfering with things we have no right to. Iraq dose not believe as we do, and never will.

[duffyn]

I am so happy to see some Republicans standing up to bush's bad take on how to handle the detainee's. And, yes, I am as anxious as anyone else to prosecute someone who wants to kill us. Anyone who thinks the world is better off without saddam hussein should spend a month in Iraq. Sorry bush admin blew it there. Also I disagree that the Democrats are in disarray. When they get back in power i think a whole lot of people are going to be happy with what they see. And, no, I don't mean the terrorists. The Dems will do a great job of reducing terrorism. Yeah Colin Powell - I really think we need to have better morals then our enemy otherwise what the heck are we fighting for???

[lukebize]

Posted by Red1530 at 04:16 PM : Sep 14, 2006:

"The terrorists don't deserve the rights of the Geneva Convention because they don't follow it."

The GC defines the difference between the two sides. It defines the conflict. Without it, there is no difference except who dies.

You listed NOT "requirements", but rather conditions created by the capturing force, not "requirements" adhered to by the prisoners. The prisoners' obligation (assuming they are real military) is escape or to at least resist assisting their captors.

The Convention applies to military captors, not to any particular status of prisoner.

It marks the difference between war criminals and soldiers; between a just nation and a rogue state.

The convention defines requirements for civilized combat by civilized nations. It does NOT define prisoners. Terrorists, as loosely defined by the Bush administration, are not an organized military force, but that in no way releases U.S. forces from their obligation to treat their prisoners in accordance with the Convention... IF the U.S. wishes to remain a credible and influential force in world politics. This is just one of many contradictions inherent in the conduct of the Bush/Cheney "War On Terror".

Our nukes won't earn us respect. Bush depletes our military options, because he has painted himself into a corner and dragged the rest of us with him. He has no other route left to him except the use of force. He discarded diplomacy within the first year of his Presidency.

[zeekylord]

I find it funny that as Americans, we have a very schizophrenic government.

A Republican party that hates itself.

A Democratic party in disarray.

A White House that is generally disliked and distrusted from within the U.S. and around the world.

Seriously, how could Nixon get impeached for a little cloak and dagger faux pas - and George W. keeps going despite unilatterally deceiving Americans, spying on Americans, crapping on American rights, and generally making the world hate Americans?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be firm about terrorism. What I am saying is that we should go about it in a manner that looks good to both people abroad, and to ourselves.

Did any of us feel good about Vietnam in the end? Did we win? Do any of us REALLY feel good about Iraq? Are we going to win? No to both. We got our collective *** handed to us in Vietnam and it will be the same in Iraq. We may be running their country thru our puppets, but the number of our boys dying is insane.

Half of the Republicans have had enough. The Democrats had enough when Bush stole the election.

And yet, George W. does not get impeached - or even censured!

***?

[mmaarrs]

What happened to Freedom of Speach in America? Oh, right it all changed on 911. Sure.

Just like it all changed the day the US "Christians" fire bombed Dresden merely as a reprisal. 100,000+ German civilians, who provided little or no strategic/tactical advantage, perished. Of course most of the dead and burned where Christians too. I think the "Christians" like Bush call it "sacrifice" - of course they leave off the other word -"human" . . . - Lol.

Shall we speak of Heroshima and Nagasaki?

The terms "liberal" and "conservative", aside from being practically meaningless, serve only to divide Americans.

On planet earth there are ONLY (unless YOU believe in extraterrestials) Men, women, and children. What divides them is what they believe. I don't care what liberals/conervatives/Christians/Jews/Islamist BELIEVE, if they kill somebody in the name of their beliefs they become merely MURDRERS.

So todat we have quite the club of torturerers and murderers; to name but a few: Bush, Osama bin Laden, Colin Powel, Sadr, Cheney, and many of the names mentioned in posts below.

Throw them all in a steel cage, equip them all with sharp machettes, and let each declare in turn their faith in myth . . .

[pccps]

I believe that the political tactic is to let Bush be the bad guy...so bad that even the most conservative Republicans will start to raise their eyebrows. He's a lame duck anyway...won't be around that much longer. They're throwing him in. Then the Republican members of Congress can legitimately object to his policies and still get the conservative vote and thereby keep control of Congress.....How's that for convoluted? It definitely sounds like something Rove would concoct, doesn't it?

[tishpearl]

In answer to dfass405's comments "If conservatives are such idiots why are Rush and O'Reilly number #1?" I'll take a shot at that one: is it beacuse you conservatives can't think for yourselves and need to be spoon fed simplistic talking points while the rest of us are busy reading books and newspapers from around the country (and the world) and are actually informing ourselves about what's going on? Just a thought. Also could be because so many conservatives, for the most part, can't read? I'm just asking.
Oh, and you are badly mis-informed; your Mr. Bush's poll ratings, according to most polls I've read (there again, can you read?) have remained in the mid to upper 3o's for quite sometime. Air America going bankrupt? Could have fooled me, as the station that carries Air where I live is doing so well they are building more studios in order to have more local as well as national offerings.
Really, dfass405, you should get away from the radio and educate youself. Listening to Bill and Rush just isn't doing it for you.

[jetsetdog]

Impeach Bush & Cheney!