Comments on: CIA Acknowledges Use Of Waterboarding

Controversial Tactic Used On 3 Terror Suspects, Senate Democrats Demand Criminal Probe

[brianbwb-2009]

"Everything I know is it is a legal technique used in a specific set of circumstances," McConnell said. "You have to know the circumstances to make a legal judgment," McConnell said." Posted by ilikecats1

So when the government hides the circumstances under a general "national security secret" statement, then we have no way of knowing whether the circumstance merited the measures, right?

So when Bush''s boyz torture a person strictly for their own sadistic pleasure, as in Abu Ghraib, they can cover their behinds with the blanket "national security secrets" sham, and it is only by happenstance that someone was stupid enough to take photos,that crimes committed in our name made it to the light of day.

[rowdytexan2]

Posted by brianbwb at 11:23 PM : Feb 05, 2008

Well said, ty!

[j-whitman]

ilikecats1,,, Now you''ve done it -- I''m going to bend you over & show you how submarine donuts are made

[rowdytexan2]

Posted by ilikecats1 at 11:20 PM : Feb 05, 2008

ilikecats1, these are terrorists we are dealing with. These are not normal men. Do you really think that they are going to give up just a whole lot of information even under torture? Supposedly these are the most hardened criminals in the world! They have already devoted their life to Allah!!

If they are really the bad as/s/ed people they say they are, they''re not going to tell anybody a *** thing. They are willing to blow themselves up!

This is why the information that comes out of places like GITMO is seriously deficient...and very very suspect! How much of it do you can you even believe when it is funnelled thru the sorry bastward Neocons???

[brianbwb-2009]

"If hard cold guidelines are issued and hard cold enforcement is employed national security would be placed at risk." Posted by ilikecats1

If they are not issued and enforced, the government will (not just "can") sooner or later use the loopholes against its own citizens, to silence opposition to activities and policies having nothing to do with national security, in which case national security no longer exists.

The murders of heroes of the civil rights struggle in the 60s, which those who were opposed to it called an "assault on national security" and a "threat to the American way of life", stand as examples of the misuse of the concept, and proof that such "flexibility" cannot be entrusted to a corrupt government.

[rowdytexan2]

For the US to torture is also the epitome of hypocrisy. If we are trying to be the shining example and light and love and fairness and respect throughout the world promoting democracy, torturing folks and then shouting at others who torture makes this country look like a bunch of idiots.

[j-whitman]

ilikecats1,,,, Get it through your head before I waterbord you ----- It gains absoultly NO actionable intell inspite of the lies Bush told us,,,, None, Nada, Zip

[wogerwabbit]

GUILTY! ... as charged! The hangman inevitably awaits Bush for crimes against humanity. What''s a poor rich boy to do? The right defends the wrong to save face and we all get to pay the toll for their trechery. I sure wish my car payment worked that way. They blissfully sell out their country to defend the tyrant and their hollow dreams of sucking the blood of the weaker amoung us so they can wildly enrich themselves and live off the fat of the land in their corporate utopia. Wolves among the flock, you might say... or perhaps, I already have a big brother, I don''t need any more. A clue for the clueless: "I got mine and f*** everyody else" is not the attitude that made this country great by any stretch of your under-educated imagination... and we... the people... will not allow that attitude to define us any longer. We are much, much better than the big balled, little dik pukes you wackos have turned this country into the past seven years, and it''s just f***ing over. To quote your beloved Ayatolla, "You''re either with us or agin'' us". Defend the Constitution with us or die stupid. That''s not so hard, is it?

[j-whitman]

ilikecats1,,,, Let me tell you a little about National Security --- Even the talk of of the creation of GITMO Detainment jepordized our National Security.

[rowdytexan2]

ilikecats1---- Shiiit, marriage is torture
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Posted by j-whitman at 10:29 PM : Feb 05, 2008

Amen! lol

[gce65]

Since 2003 and the start of the War in Afghanistan, 775 detainees have been sent to Guantanamo, approximately 420 of which have been released. But according to the Bush admin these were all dangerous terrorists, hence the reason for sending them to Gitmo in the first place. But by their own actions, the Bush admin has admitted they aren''t dangerous terrorists. If so, then why did they release them? I think we all know why: because the BUSH ADMIN IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED with the truth.

[j-whitman]

ilikecats1,,, It''s not a tough call at all, it''s a No-Brainer,,,,, We don''t torture or waterboard

[j-whitman]

AJMarine1,,, Exactly, yes thank you -- it kinda left it hanging as if Clinton authroized it.

[ajmarine1]

J, is this what you wanted?


In September of 2003, General Sanchez issued orders, detailed orders, for expanded interrogation techniques beyond those allowed in the U.S. Army Field Manual 3452, and if you look at those techniques, what he%u2019s ordering, in essence, is a combination of self-inflicted pain, stress positions and sensory disorientation, and if you look at the 1963 C.I.A. KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation Manual, you look at the 1983 C.I.A. Interrogation Training Manual that they used in Honduras for training Honduran officers in torture and interrogation, and then twenty years later, you look at General Sanchez%u2019s 2003 orders, there%u2019s a striking continuity across this forty-year span, in both the general principles, this total assault on the existential platforms of human identity and existence, okay? And the specific techniques, the way of achieving that, through the attack on these sensory receptors.


http://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/17/professor_mccoy_exposes_the_history_of

[gce65]

Now how about naming some of the hundreds of the CIA''s "ghost detainees" around the world in the secret prisons where stuff like this is done?
Places like:
"The salt pit" just north of Kabul at 34.34.40 N/ 69.17.16 E.
Stare Kiejkuty Intel. Base in Poland at 53.37.50 N/ 21.4.43 E.
Mihail Kogalniceanu Air Base north of Constanza, Romania at 44.20.56 N/ 28.29.1 E.

And while you''re at it, how about naming the location of ISRAEL''S FACILITY 1391 where they routinely torture people--terrorism suspects and kidnapped foreign civilians alike.

[brianbwb-2009]

Tough choices.
Posted by ilikecats1

False choices, your question assumes the person in custody is definitely in possession of relevant information, an assertion the CIA didn''t and cannot prove to be the case.

You also assume humanitarian or nationalistic motive for those torturing, which in this case is belied by the evidence that Bush cares nothing at all about lives, one or one million, American or Iraqi.

Thirdly, and most importantly, it is beyond today''s technology to make and deliver a "suitcase" nuclear weapon capable of killing a million people, if such existed, you would have already seen one or two detonated in the Middle East already, so such an extreme extrapolation is similar to the assertion that if a person is allowed to use pot, the world will soon become heroin junkies. This kind of hysterical exaggeration no longer scares anyone, and like the boy who cried "wolf", makes people less likely to believe the warnings of any actually real threats.

[vortecmax]

"sensory deprivation, sensory overload, sleep and food "manipulation", humiliation, extreme temperatures, isolation, stress positions - and worse."

Didn''t we try most of this in Waco a few years back?

[j-whitman]

ilikecats1,,,, I think you can count on it happening in El Salvador & Nicaragua ---- We are still trying to clean up that mess ------ It feeds the reason I believe republicans want to keep us in constant conflict.

[ajmarine1]

j-whitman,

No I don''t. I tried to find something, but haven''t found what I''m looking for.

[j-whitman]

AJMarine1,,,, Do you know when those training manuals were released ??? Or was it just an admission that we have in the past incorporated it in the manuals ???