Comments on: Who Is The Real Barack Obama?

National Review Online: Even Democrats Don't Know The Answer

[samthetvcat]

---"Are you open to having your plans hijacked and distorted by your opponent to your and your supporters disadvantage? Do you consider that wise?"---
Posted by RedfromLA

And with this I guess we are just different because if the plans were wise then yeah I would think it''d be to one''s benefit to get them out there because then nobody else could compete.

Silence from a competitor would then be fatal for them assuming one''s plan is good - if they''ve fostered a vacuum of ideas, it gives one the option of either drawing the contrast of direction versus silence, or taking the liberty of filling in the blanks for the competition.

jmo though . . . I don''t much like passivity any more than I like deception . . .

[samthetvcat]

Posted by RedfromLA

Sorry if I was putting words in your mouth - I didn''t mean to direct my frustration towards you. I''m just frustrated with both the candidates.

Like both candidates have been asked point blank twice what they''re going to cut out of their programs and Barack answered that he was going to be able to afford his trillion dollar programs because he was cutting out $30mil of other programs. So is he saying he''s going to let the deficit balloon?

Either Barack''s being unrealistic or he''s lying. And given that he''s a control freak, I think he''s deliberately trying to paint a portrait that he knows he''s not going to stick to.

So when you said it was for our own good that he not provide more detail, I was skipping some steps and drawing some conclusions.

jmo - clearly we don''t see eye to eye on that.

PS I supported a bailout, I just didn''t support the plan being put forth by Paulson of buying up the bad debt of the investment banks in question so that they could conduct business as usual. Both the candidates did, and they had no alternatives like providing loans or giving the support to regular banks who don''t create those CDO''s.

[redfromla]

SamTheTVCat

"You''''re saying you need to lie and deceive people for their own good because people are self-defeating?"

Where you got that "need to lie and deceive" is not from anywhere I said silence on an issue is neither deception nor lie. Saying that people are self-defeating is a misrepresentation of what I said. I was saying that people would, in stressful times, prioritize short-term personal needs instead of impersonal long-term needs for the good of all.



"...the same result could be achieved by laying facts out . . ."

In ideal non-competitive situations that would be good. But consider the fact that it is a presidential campaign prone to distortions, and contortions by both sides. Are you open to having your plans hijacked and distorted by your opponent to your and your supporters disadvantage? Do you consider that wise?



"... And then he went and supported a bailout of investment banks so we could have an economy of complex financial instruments once again . . . "

Much as I disagree with the bailout, it is the most immediate pressing issue, and when you are on the edge of a cliff, even a knife sticking out is a good handhold.

[samthetvcat]

---"Personally I tend not to be drawn to people who don''t talk down to me with lies supposedly for my own good."---
Posted by SamTheTVCat

oops I was all in a lather - that should read ''Personally I tend not to be drawn to people who talk down to me with lies supposedly for my own good"

[samthetvcat]

---"SamTheTVCat, if you had a plan to make things better, and need the support of people(who would be adversely affected in the short run) to get things better, would you want to alienate them away from you because they are only thinking of the short-run(their immediate needs) instead of the long run?"---
Posted by RedfromLA

You''re saying you need to lie and deceive people for their own good because people are self-defeating?

I guess maybe we''re just different people because the same result could be achieved by laying facts out and informing people of the choices while pointing out that the competition is in the same spot, but that the difference is that the other person''s plan will lead to result B while the plan that''s being proposed will lead to result A in the long-run . . . (paint the portrait of peace and prosperity, then delineate the plan, acknowledge the trade-offs but paint the portrait of chaos that would otherwise ensue) . . .

Personally I tend not to be drawn to people who don''t talk down to me with lies supposedly for my own good. But that''s not even my point - my point was that the secret plans he''s got seem to suck. Have you read some of them? They say stuff like that Barack, unlike every other human being before him, will recognize crises before they happen so that they will never happen again. And then he went and supported a bailout of investment banks so we could have an economy of complex financial instruments once again . . .

[redfromla]

Be very scared of this Man.

He pals around with people who wanted to overthrow the government. One of them is His closest follower.

He also pals around with persons whose business dealings are shady.

He was listening to a raving religious lunatic, and spoke well of him, but rejected the vision of that raving lunatic, still He showed respect for him.

He despises capitalism and instead promotes a very socialistic vision during speeches.

He believes health care is a right not a privilege and allows people to be cured for the least expense.

He talks about hope and did not incite fear, nor promoted it, with those He talked to.

He kept back a lot of things secret and would not say everything He knew to everyone.

He did not speak or rile the crowds to anger and hate but pushed for change.

He also talked about meeting your enemy without precondition.

He only told the truth about Himself to those He trusted.

Somebody shouted "Kill Him!" at an important political gathering.

In the last minutes of His Life forgave a thief and died besides scoundrels.

Oh, and He lived 2000 years ago...maybe that''s why...

[redfromla]

creeper00

Ask yourself why you can''t see. You don''t even know what "Leadership" is if it was a wall 6inches in front of you. McCain/Palin can''t even provide good leadership to the crowds at rallies. If his cr*p hadn''t blown in his face McCain wouldn''t have partially stood up for Obama at a recent rally.

[creeper00]

Like isn''''t it kind of backwards to wait for others to come around rather than him making a tough call and selling it to others because he''''s done the analysis and his plan is sound? He''''s got access to information and resources that the rest of us don''''t have . . .

Posted by SamTheTVCat at 06:32 PM : Oct 11, 2008

Sam,

That quality you''re not seeing is called "leadership".

[skysoldier75]

It''s truly hard to pull away from the macabre spectacles of Palin''s irresponsibly incendiary town hall campaign appearances long enough to really wonder much about Sen. Obama these days.

Palin''s town hall meetings have steadily devolved into ever more disturbing events that have all the sophistication and ambiance of a KKK cross-burning.

One watches them in fearful anticipation that at any moment the enraged, blood-thirsty crowd might finally start grabbing any available protesters and media crews and simply begin lynching them from nearest lamp poles right before the eyes of the entire world.

With Palin eagerly and passionately baiting "Joe Sixpack" into giving in to his most homicidal, religiously intolerant, racist, homophobic, xenophobic vigilante urges, who really has time to wonder about Mr. Obama''s comparatively mundane inner workings?

[idnnsg]

This whole "who is the real Barack Obama?" thing is yet another attempt by the repugs, who have NOTHING of their own to run on, to smear Obama and to make people fear him, hoping to reduce the landslide to something they can finesse with their crooked voting machines.

Oooh! He''s "different", he''s "risky", be afraid, be VERY afraid!!! Is THAT supposed to make us want to vote for McInsane and his pet Strumpet? I THINK NOT!!!

The ONLY thing the NRO is going to get by running this stu.pid opinion piece is to make re.tards fear Obama. Well, guess what? The re.tards are already afraid! We''ve seen them on the news, threatening violence against Obama, claiming he''s a "muslim" and an "Arab", and a "terrorist", etc. etc.

When all you''ve got is LIES, then you''ve got NOTHING!

The GOP is toast.