Comments on: The 9/11 Truth Movement's Dangers

Nation: Dishonest Government Leads To Cynical Theorists

[aeasus]

Cut and pasted from ... http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=112&contentid=3961&page=2

Kevin Ryan who was responsible for the thermal testing of the WTC Steel when it was certified, the samples tested for the WTC were certified to withstand a temperature of 2,000 deg for 6 hours without failing their rated load characteristics. And that is without insulation.
The WTC beams were insulated.

South tower which fell first after burning for only 55 minutes, and at a point when the fires had greatly diminished.

[ecuadoriana]

yes, the planes really did crash into the wtc. yes, innocent people really spoke with their families right up till their deaths. and yes, the bushites had this planned from the beginning to justify their end- a "holy war" (bush's words) against the middle east. the people in the planes were "soft targets", the term used to describe civilians killed when missiles attack a city. accouple thousand disposible soft targets is worth it, to bush, if it gets him what he wants in the end.

what he should get in the "end" is a hard, swift kick from each family member left behind to mourn the loss of their dead- and that includes every iraqi woman who held a dead, mangled child or husband in her arms...

[aeasus]

Dishonest Government Leads To Cynical Theorists

The title of the story says it all!!

[rafterman1]

Don't you know, those passengers on the planes were in on the conspiracy. They were really committed to the lie :)

The problem with consipracy theories is, they are self-mutating. For instance, obviously, the planes crashed into the towers (we saw them) and the passengers told their loved ones what was happening (terrorists, etc). The conspiracy then shifts from "the government did it with cruise missiles" to "the government knew about it and let it happen". And if that idea can be disproven, they come up with a new theory. Basically, you cannot convince a conspiracy theorist of anything, no matter what proof you have to the opposite.

Sometimes weird stuff happens and you can't explain every iota of an incident. There isn't an event in history that has every question answered. There's always something unexplained. But that doesn't mean it's a great conspiracy. Steel failing at only 1500 degrees vs 2500 degrees might be unusual, but that just means something we can't fully explain happened, not that it's a plot.

[rafterman1]

I love how you righties bring up our "hatred of Bush" like we just decided to hate some otherwise normally likable guy for no reason. Or my personal favorite, we hate Bush because he's religious or we hate Bush for "who he is" - as if it is unwarranted hated.

George Bush has shown great incompetence in dealing with disasters like 9-11 and Katrina. He started a war on falsified evidence, killing 3000 of our kids and countless Iraqis. His policies have driven more people to terrorism and extremism than ever before, making us much less safe than we ever were. He used 9-11 as an excuse to scare the American people into taking away our liberties. He contnues to give tax breaks to corporations and the rich over the people who need it the most, the middle class. He refuses to recognize mistakes (or apparently, reality) as evidenced by his latest statements on how the Iraq commission proves he was right about Iraq. He has changed our surplus into a devastating deficit with unstoppable spending. He picked as his first veto a bill that would have helped sick people (stem cell research). He appointed several radical right wing judges and other people. He implied that Americans were traitors or terrorist sympathizers for simply disagreeing with his policies. He is also not intellectually curious and just plain lazy.

So, do I hate Bush? You bet I do. I hate anyone who hurts our country. He is the worst president ever and history will bear that out.

[sandycat2]

egressor, don't you beleive what the people who witnessed the event and lived through it. How about the people who died on the plane. Some talked by cell phone to loved ones up until the crash that claimed their lives. Is not this alone enough to tell you what happened? The plane crashing into the Pentagon was only caught on tape by a security camera and was released to the public. I saw it. It doesn't look like much because it's security film. Security film always doesn't look like much. The US has real enemies in Islamic extemists who want to kill us. Something is very wrong with your thinking.

[egresor]

to jhindson1
its correct that steel gets weakened and that it could contribute to the collapse, but there are also other considerations.

there was nothing present capable of producing the temperatures required to cause steel to become molten. nothing! not the jet fuel nor any component of the structure in combination with it.

credible eyewitness evidence and actual photographs showed the evidence of steel being raised to high enough temperatures to become molten. that was not possible with the jet fuels nor with any combination of fuels available to the fire. and that by a substancial ammount.

it isn't that alone which causes one to pause and question. there are many others.

[egresor]

to believe that there are no valid questions on the administration's position on the occurences of 9-11 is to be awake with ones eyes closed and ears plugged.

is it any wonder that the public doesn't believe what is being released as the facts? in the past there were plans to kill american citizens to justify invading cuba.... and weren't there occurences of exposing american citizens to deadly (or sickening) bacteria and radiation unbeknownst to them? what about the syphilis studies on blacks? never question your leaders because they wouldn't do such things.

how does molten steel remain in the lower levels of the towers for weeks after-- when nothing in the fire was capable of producing the sorts of temperatures required to cause steel to become molten.

why the secrecy? why doesn't the pentagon release clear pictures of the airplane collision? family victim concerns? they relased a short section that showed nothing without consulting them. evidence for the Moussaoui trial was used, but that's over. the 9-11 commission failed to question much of anything, but accepted what they were delivered to them. is it any wonder people question?

do some in depth research and see if you don't find valid questions.

[jhindson1]

Truthiness is at at work here. . . . . people believing with their gut rather than the facts.

It is not that steel melts at 2500 degress, it is that steel loses its strength way before it melts. That, combined with broken beams and finally upper floor collapse on the severly weakened structure brought down the towers.

Bush is the master of truthiness.

[swingalong]

How can one say that most of these idiots are this party or that? Have you done a survey? No, you haven't. It's pretty silly to blame such lack of toughmindedness on the liberals and Democrats. I can argue the opposite easily enough. Remember, we didn't believe in WMMs and all the silly conspiracy nonsense Bush was able to shovel-feed to the conservative, yellow ribbon suckers. Some of the biggest conspiracy theorists I know are right wing nuts. Liberals aren't impressed when Bush tries to scare us with idiotic talk about human/animal clones, either. (Shiver, shiver, grab my wrist!). What was he talking about? Baaa! Oops! It is Senator Hatch (Senator Male Enhancement) who has helped to bring quack herbal potions to the mainstream suckers of all political persuasions. Actually, I don't believe the preposterous 911 conspiracy fad is really a liberal/conservative thing. I've noticed that both have the tendency to believe in herbal remedies, UFOs, and other silliness. For many other things that count, however, I think liberals are clearly more toughminded. If you mouthe a clichi like "Freedom isn't Free," you can COUNT on conservatives mindlessly to fall into step in their very classic sheeplike mannor. No thinking, just tears in their eyes and flags waving and yaller ribbons plastered everywhere. Gosh, war is fun! This is how Bush was able to ruin the country's reputation forever, gut the treasury, empower the enemy, and get everyone killed in Iraq for nothing.

[stezzer]

As a Brit I'm stunned one-third of Americans believe this rubbish.

9/11 was perpetrated by brainwashed Islamic terrorists. And making up silly conspiracy theories lets them off the hook.

The nutters who planned 9/11 must be thrilled people are blaming the American government.

[sandycat2]

This is not a shock to me. Most of these Americans who beleive this stupid conspiracy theory are democrats and so-called liberals. I have talked to many of them. But the attitude of the Deocratic party toward and their hatred of Bush has fostered this belief and allowed it to grow. I say again what I have said for a long time now. Democrats don't know who are enemy is. They think we are the enemy. God help us now that democrats are in power. We will be at the mercy of our enemies.

[sharncedar]

"By and large, life continues as before, even though tens of millions of people apparently believe they are being governed by mass murderers"

What do you propose we do? We are trying to make our mortgage payments and keep our jobs so we'll have health care, we are out here 1 foot in the middle class and 1 foot in the grave. What do you expect people to do, of course everyone I know is extremely angry and cynical, with no respect for leadership at any level, but we have real fear and real consequences held over our heads.

[sharncedar]

9/11 is synergistically connected to the aims and goals of non-democratic elements within our corporate/fascist government. Thus, to some people it is a simpler viewpoint to say that corporate/fascist state actually did the 9/11 act itself.

I don't think the distinction matters much. Those who used the incident to kill more Americans and seize our freedoms from us are as guilty as if they did it themselves, so what is the point in arguing whether they actually pulled the trigger on the attack.

The law theory is that of "accessory after the fact" which gets you the same conviction. This government is at leat an "accessory after the fact" of the 9/11 murders, for example by letting Bin Laden's family out of the country. That is a known fact, how do you dispute it, other than with Bush-stlye false rhetoric.