Comments on: Get The Troops Out Of Iraq, And Fast

The Nation: U.S. Presence In Iraq Only Begets Us More Enemies

[feelfree1]

dogsoul,

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the (Nazi) Nuremberg trials

[feelfree1]

notblue,

Re: ""left" is a political term referring to your extreme ideology."

The concepts of decency, the rule of law, and accountablility, are hardly extreme views. They only seem that way to extremists.

[dogsoul]

Wow - why don't you cowardly liberals just don some black turbins & start shouting Allah Akbar! War is hell, and despite our efforts to restrict casualties to non-civilians - that is going to happen, particularly since the Islamic Radicals you support use them as human shields without so much as an after-thought...

When even a slightest glimpse of anything positive happens to slide past the liberal media & make its way on screen... you think it's some conspiracy & propoganda ploy - pathetic... absolutely shameful that we have to fight these enemies from within our own country.

I recall back when that massive terror plot on U.S. soil was thwarted - I actually sensed REAL DISSAPPOINTMENT from Liberals, they were genuinely upset that a successful counter-terror measure had occurred under Bush's watch... They couldn't even see past their own partisan fog enough to be happy that we foiled the attack - THAT'S the American Liberal for ya, and I use the term American loosely.... cowards, traitors.

[feelfree1]

notblue,

Re: "Summing up your logic the U.S. is bad, the extremists cause is righteous."

You got most of the words right, but the order is wrong. Let me help you:

"Summing up (my) logic, the U.S. extemists' "righteous" cause, is bad.

[feelfree1]

dogsoul,

Re: "I am not a coward and would proudly fight if allowed."

Why aren't you allowed? Are there any men with white uniforms standing around you? If not, I can put you in touch with the folks at Blackwater and Wackenhtut, if you are truly interested in 'joining the fight'. They can help you to wrap yourself in the flag, while making the "big bucks".

Re: "If we could be certain that 9/11 was a one-time event, then your observations about more deaths in Iraq would be valid"

We can't be certain of that. I think that Cheney would do virtually anything to stay in power.

[szelag19]

The "Iraq War" has ceased to be a war....it is now the occupation of Iraq by U.S.troops..who have ceased fighting...who are now just being mamed and killed. This is justification for a withdrawal of these troops. THE IRAQUI PEOPLE DO NOT WANT US THERE.WE ARE NOT SERVING A PUPOSE THERE. The people of America were lied to about the reason for this war right from the very beginning. There is an outcry in th U.S...as witnessed in the last elections..where we are tired and heartsick of hearing about these kids getting killed every day. The Democrats better remember that this is one of the biggest reasons the last vote went the way it did. Of course the Pentagon and all their fat assed Generals don't want to withdraw...they can sit in the comfy chairs far away from the fray and play war..which they haven't had a chance to do since Vietnam and Desert Storm..2 more fiasco's where lives were lost at the hands of these arm chair warriors..exactly what does it take for these politicians to get the message that the American people want our kids home??

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[notblue]

FeelFree1, "left" is a political term referring to your extreme ideology. Summing up your logic the U.S. is bad, the extremists cause is righteous. I am not a coward and would proudly fight if allowed.

[feelfree1]

tejasdemo,

Good points!

[feelfree1]

dogsoul,

The idea that we "would be greeted as liberators" was yet another false claim foisted upon us by the PNAC extremists, using their faith-based, Chalabi-supplied intelligence.

We are not welcome in Iraq. We never were, (except maybe by the Kurds), and the Iraqi people have every right to defend themselves against the brutal and illegal invasion of their country.

On Tuesday in Iraq, U.S. soldiers fired on a house, using tanks and machine guns, resulting in the deaths of 5 little girls.

Our disgrace is only deepening in Iraq. We were defeated there a long time ago. Most people are just now realizing that. You do not appear to be among them.

[marcodele]

If you don't agree with Dogsoul, Rush Limbaugh, and Anne Coulter, then you are a terrorist. Its that simple. And so is Dogsoul.

[tejasdemo]

The only way to solve the terroism thing and make it go away is resolve the Israeli-Palestinian problem.

And, the only way to solve that is to give the Palestinians back the land that they feel was taken from them. Period.

I have never understood the big deal anyway. God is supposed to be in our hearts and our actions not just some piece of land. So, why all the killing in the name of a peaceful God just doesnt make any sense to me.

Anyway, what do I know anyway, right ?

[feelfree1]

dogsoul,

Re: "are you forgetting how many Iraqi citizens not only joined our effort, cut celebrated in the streets when Saddam was toppled?"

No, I have not. This a prime example of the U.S. pro-war, staged propaganda machine in action.

There were hardly any "Iraqis celebrating" at the Saddam statue site. At least ABC had the courage to report this on ABC Nightline.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1598451_comment.php

The Jessica Lynch "rescue" is an even more aggregious compilation of Western media fables, in my opinion.

Please do some reading. You've been duped.

[feelfree1]

dogsoul,

Re: "The war in Iraq is part of a long-term strategy to reshape the landscape of the middle east from a region ruled by psychotic despots, terror organizations, and the like to one ruled by Democratic influences..."

Sounds like the same flavor of tripe, regularly churned out by the likes of William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Richard Perle, David Frum, and the rest of the PNAC apologists.

Three key problems with their collective strategy:

1) The use of terrorism is never an effective way to fight terrorism.

2) If we surrender our hard fought Constitutional rights, out of blind fear, what exactly are we defending?

3) Their plans been demonstrated beyond doubt, to be an abject failure; tactically, strategically, and morally.

[dogsoul]

As to the whole, they're just fighting an occupation force that invaded their country... are you forgetting how many Iraqi citizens not only joined our effort, cut celebrated in the streets when Saddam was toppled? Are you forgetting how people, much like yourself I'd imagine accussed the U.S. of "abandoning" the Iraqi people back in Desert Storm when we did NOT proceed with removing Saddam? You are not siding with the Iraqi people that want a free Democratic stable country - You are siding with the Islamic radicals that want to establish a government much like Iran's.... shame on you.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[dogsoul]

The war in Iraq is part of a long-term strategy to reshape the landscape of the middle east from a region ruled by psychotic despots, terror organizations, and the like to one ruled by Democratic influences - think Turkey, think Japan, think Germany. THAT is poison for terror organizations and regimes that sponsor them. If we could be certain that 9/11 was a one-time event, then your observations about more deaths in Iraq would be valid - but that's the point, unless you think some minor reaction like lobbing a couple cruise missiles in the general direction of terrorists who attack us is an effective long-term counter measure - fine, let's try it.... oh wait, we did try that. Unless you're happy to experience an occassional 9/11 here & there, or worse, ad infinitum - go ahead, cut & run, try to appease them... see where it gets you. You, Al Queda, and your mass media may well succeed in demoralizing America to defeat Bush - but you and unfortunately everyone else will reap the rewards in the future.

[changeit4]

Isn't this past stupidity now? We know Dubya ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, but insanity is trying the same thing expecting different results. This operation was a valiant effort (albeit arrogant and self-serving to those in the Capitol), but there are no winners in this debacle. It's time to go home.

Insane and stupid, powerful and imperialistic: a recipe for disaster. The historical company George W. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld et al will have at the end of this mess is infamous!

[feelfree1]

notblue,

Re: "the fascists in this country preside on the left"

"On the left" of what?

Is the 'merger of the Corporation and the State' a required element of fascism?

The illegal U.S. war of aggression against Iraq will be remembered as one of the biggest military and moral defeats in all of "American" history.

Choose the size of your humiliation?

You have selected, SUPPERSIZE!

You are free to cower in your corner, eagerly sacrificing the blood and treasure of others to appease your delusions.

I will not surrender to fear, in exchange for a false sense of security, and I will not allow the U.S. to be overrun by fools and fascists, such as the members and supporters of the "Project for a New American Century", the "Heritage Foundation", and the "American Enterprise Institute".

Members and supporters/appeasers of these groups, represent the greatest terrorist threat to the people of the U.S., and to the planet- by far.

They will be held to account for their deeds.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.