Comments on: Swearing In By The Koran?

NRO: The Constitution Protects Multiculturalism

[andy_f90]

Xristim,

Apparently Prager doesn't understand that.

One quick comment to SandyCat:

"Andy, the Pope never said Islam brought nothing but violence. He was reading a quote from a 14th century historical figure. Can't you understand the difference between a person actually making a statement of their own and a person reading a quote attributated to another person?"

He never explicitly said he disagreed with it in his speech. Why else would he put something like that in there 2 days AFTER 9/11 in the safety of his alma mater in Germany? (Where survey shows 80% of people are anti-Islamic and want to curb Muslim rights like dressing modestly (and showing them homophilic movies to "test their Western compatability." Go force Southern Baptists to see those movies as a "citizenship tests" and see the reaction)

Ratzinger didn't make some random comment...he planned it out in a written speech. And by quoting a rival, miniscule Christian leader he thought he'd make his point without getting critism. That's sly and cunning.

He is known for his previous hostility to Islam as Ratzinger calling for a "tougher line" with Muslims and that "they're incompatible with Christian European values," hence Turkey didn't fit it.

It wasn't work-speak but intentional, he is known for that. Hopefully his PR stunt to Turkey would less frightening to the Muslim public opinion, though doubts still abound with his true intention (only time will tell)

Interesting...we are grown so pure that we cannot brook the sight of the word wh**re, I note.

Well, frumpery harlot (let's see if that makes it past the purity policy), frumpery lady of the night, frumpery working girl, frumpery baggage, frumperty tart, frumpery skag?

On the other hand, I note that prevarication, assassination, murder, molestation, and Wild West morality apparently do NOT alarm the purity police.

I sometimes truly do despair of us.

...but because the act undermines American civilization.

What a fragile, disease-ravaged, collapsing frumpery *** must American civilization be, to be undermined by a man's choosing to give his oath on the book of his faith!

Citizenship is NOT a product or by-product of religious belief. Mr. Prager does understand that, doesn't he?

[sandycat2]

Andy, the Pope never said Islam brought nothing but violence. He was reading a quote from a 14th century historical figure. Can't you understand the difference between a person actually making a statement of their own and a person reading a quote attributated to another person? And then the Islamic community going on a rampage over the Pope's speech makes my case on its own.
I am sorry, but I am right about the prophet Muhamed and Muslim armies after him. You have been brainwashed and don't want to believe the truth.

[andy_f90]

Then where did the great European Renaissance come from? From Arabs who perserved and translated inter-civiliazation great works building the largest libraries on the fact of the world in Alexandria, Egypt. Medicine and algebra enhanced and invented by Arabs and Muslims. Heck the numbers and numerals YOU USE TODAY are Arabic and Muslim in origin, hence Arabic numerals! Go try and get a college degree without algebra or (Al-Jabr). See how far you get in life. Also the coffee Americans are addicted to every morning w=as a contribution of Muslims. Hospitals were invented by Muslims. I don't make this stuff up. Look it up yourself.

Wishing you the best,

A PROUD MUSLIM. (No, no contradiction there, lol only you were made to believe that :)

Again I'll close with my Islamic teacher telling me, "Americans at the core are decent people...who are being misled about Islam...the question is not whether Islam can embrace the West as you can see with Muslim contributions they have (with 30,000 doctors in this country being Muslim physicians who SAVE THOUSANDS OF "infidel" LIVES because they want to serve and care for humanity as instructed by Prophet Muhammad, unlike some Islamophobic website who would have some believe) BUT the BIGGER QUESTION IS, "Can the West embrace Islam as legitimate continuation of Abrahamic Judaism and Christianity."

Some thinks to ponder...nice talking to you. Salaam (peace).

[andy_f90]

(Prohet Muhamed and Muslim armies after him made war on non-muslims to spread Islam-convert or pay tax or die)

Just by that simplisitic statement you prove time and time again you don't understand Islam...no historical account of any religious figure has more been preserved and written about than Prophet Mohammed. Hence the very things you talk about won't be there unless early Muslim diciples were instructed to use the power of the pen to perserve and write down the message...How much corroborated and accurate evidence in comparison do we know about Jesus? Hardly any...

As for pay tax, yeah non-Muslims were made to pay jizya but Muslims also PAID tax called religious tax or zakat. However unlike Muslims who had to serve in the military, NON-Muslims didn't have an obligation to serve in the military. Thus the tax was protection as we pay tax in this country for "defense." AS a conservative you'd understand that concept!

And you're not being "conservative about Islam." Saying what you've said (parroting the right-wing defamation and demonization of Islam and Muslims), that's being hateful and malicious towards Islam like the Pope saying "Islam brought nothing but violence to the world."

[andy_f90]

I remember when Bin Laden addressed George W. Bush he said unequivocally: "unless we have peace from YOUR domination (both military and financial) in our countries, we won't let you live in peace."

Have you ever lived or been in that part of the world? If not, then you'd never understand the influence America has there. How rulers there are willing to toe-Bush's line over popular opinion of their own people which causes resentment and violent backlash.

A sad reality that not many people know about!

Remember sandycat, There could be a billion peaceful people on Earth but it takes only 1 to commit carnage. Likewise there could be a majority of Americans opposed to invasion of Muslim Iraq, but only 1 war-loving President that can unleash carnage of gigantic proportions as we see today.

[sandycat2]

Andy, I don't listen to any of those people you mentioned. And for the record, I am not a Republican. I used to be a democrat, but after 9/11, I got sick of the democratic line and became an independent. But yes I am very conservative about Islamic terrorism. And I believe in finding out about history (Prohet Muhamed and Muslim armies after him made war on non-muslims to spread Islam-convert or pay tax or die) and I believe in looking at what people do and say in the present. People like Iranian leaders (he wants to wipe Isreal off the map. The large number of imams who called for the killing of Americans, ect.) Bin Laden who wants to destroy our democracy and kill Americans. The list are too numerous too mention all. When someone shows me I am wrong, I will change my mind about Islam, but not before.

[andy_f90]

"I have only felt the need to find out about the Prophet Mohamed and the Koran because I felt it was necessary for me to educate myself in light of the Islamic terrorists threats and attacks agianst the US."

Sorry to say but keep educating yourself. You haven't reach even the most basic form or knowledge of Islam as practiced by 1/5th of humanity...

You seem like a genuine guy, but have unfortunately have taken the wrong people (mostly anti-Muslim

[andy_f90]

Sandy,

Andy, I whole hearted agree with the Muslims saying, "To be your way, and to me mine". But unfortunately, Andy, Muslims only mean that saying for fellow muslims.

How in God's world can you telling me what my own faith teaches me? What is this holier than thou complex so endemic of the right-wing? That they know better of what others are saying than the speaker himself?

Do you even know the Koranic context of that verse or did you hear that from the like of Brigidette Gabriel, Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin and their "profiling" ilk?

Seriously now...

As for gossimer3, I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. Thanks.

[sandycat2]

You know gossimer, please don't talk to me about the bible. It's tiresome. I have never read the bible and I never intend to. I have only felt the need to find out about the Prophet Mohamed and the Koran because I felt it was necessary for me to educate myself in light of the Islamic terrorists threats and attacks agianst the US. I was tired of people telling me that Islam was a peaceful and tolerant religion and then Islamists would cut off peoples' heads or muslims who changed their faith were put under a death sentence. Well, I found out that Islam was spread by war and the conquered were given the 3 choices, convert to Islam, pay a tax, or get your head cut off.
My bible is the US constitution

[sandycat2]

Andy, I whole hearted agree with the Muslims saying, "To be your way, and to me mine". But unfortunately, Andy, Muslims only mean that saying for fellow muslims. They don't stretch that saying to include non-muslims.
It's very funny to me that you think Muslims making war on Chistian and non-muslim areas and conquering them is just war and battle to you, but when Christian armies fought back against the Muslim advance, then it was a crusade and a slaughter. Throughout history, beginning with the Prophet Muhamed, Muslims armies wanted to spread Islam by war and Muslims wanted to take over the then known world. And when Muslim armies conquered areas, they gave the non-muslim inhabitants 3 choices: Convert to Islam, pay a tax to the greedy Muslims, or die by the sword. That is a historical fact. Perhaps you had better get the history books out, Andy. No wonder the Christians felt they needed a crusade to defend themselves against Islam. If muslims had said, "To be your way, and to me mine", there wouldn't have been a crusade.

[gossimer]

You know what, the Bible talks about killing people, condoning slavery, and countless other things that any CIVILIZED person would be against, as well! Don't go condemning the Koran, when our Bible is equally guilty! It's how a person uses what they what they interrupt from them both that is evil, NOT the the books themselves!

If we were to take the Bible literally, we'd have to destroy every house with mildew in it, women would have to burn every article of clothing they wore during menstruation, NO ONE would be allowed to work on the Sabbath, etc!

One's religion and or faith, or lack there of, should remain a personal matter between themselves and their idea of a Greater Power or Being, that they hold THEMSELVES accountable to, NOT anyone else!

Organized religion is a hypocrisy, it's about man and politics, NOT GOD!

[andy_f90]

As was taught to me by my Islamic teachers to say to the ignorant: To be your way, and to me mine.

[andy_f90]

I find it funny that you dismiss the Crusades as "ancient history" and tell me to shut up (typical Christian or American 'red-neck' conversative hubris i guess) while delving into "ancient history" to attack the Prophet and describe the battle of Constantinople as a "Crusade."

Go seriously read your own history. The Crusades slaughtered over 2 million unarmed civilians who were Muslims, Jews, and even other Christians! Some who sought refuge in churches, mosques, and synagogues were burnt alive!

In contrast, the Ottoman Empire fought a regular military battle against Byzantine Empire at BY HISTORICAL accounts the population of Constantinople was "estimated 50,000 people residing in the city at the time of its capture."

So yea, I see the difference between a massacre of millions and a battle amongst 50,000 of which half were captured and the other half were given amnesty.

So yea, please continue to talk, but do so with historical analysis.

As a great saying goes, "we are all entitled to our opinions, but not to our facts."

And I ask you as a self-righteous Christian to reiterate Jesus's word "Blessed are the warmongers or peacemakers?"

[andy_f90]

Andy, no one really cares about the crusades. That's ancient history. If you want to compare history, there is plenty of historical record where Phrophet Muhamed conquered non-muslims and then butchered the men by cutting off their heads and then raping and enslaving their women.

Right and Jesus also raped women and killed them... that how much sense you make when you speak from plain malice, spite, and downright ignorance.

Yes Andy, but if Islam has it's way, the US will be a all Muslim.

Yea just like the Middle East where Islam is the prevailing religion and after 1,300 years of Caliphate we see ABSOLUTELY NO Christian, Jew, agnostic, atheist, Orthodox, Shi'i, Druze there.
Boy Islam really had its way there and in Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Africa.

Lol, you need to speak more from facts and not from your well of venom!

[andy_f90]

Andy, no one really cares about the crusades. That's ancient history. If you want to compare history, there is plenty of historical record where Phrophet Muhamed conquered non-muslims and then butchered the men by cutting off their heads and then raping and enslaving their women.

Right and Jesus also raped women and killed them... that how much sense you make when you speak from plain malice, spite, and downright ignorance.

Yes Andy, but if Islam has it's way, the US will be a all Muslim.

Yea just like the Middle East where Islam is the prevailing religion and after 1,300 years of Caliphate we see ABSOLUTELY NO Christian, Jew, agnostic, atheist, Orthodox, Shi'i, Druze there.
Boy Islam really had its way there and in Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Africa.

Lol, you need to speak more from facts and not from your well of venom!

[sandycat2]

Yes Andy, but if Islam has it's way, the US will be a all Muslim.

[sandycat2]

Andy, no one really cares about the crusades. That's ancient history. If you want to compare history, there is plenty of historical record where Phrophet Muhamed conquered non-muslims and then butchered the men by cutting off their heads and then raping and enslaving their women. There is a reason Constantnople is no longer Christian, but is now Muslim and called Istanbul. The Muslims had a crusade of their own going against Christians and they slaughtered a lot of them. I suppose you didn't expect anyone to know about any of this just because we never say anything about this until now. So you can shut up about the Christian crusade now because the Muslim crusade was worse and it's still going on in the present day.

[andy_f90]

The author of this article states:

"The affirmation option was thus one tool to make sure that the law didn't exclude people of certain religious groups from office, but rather let them retain their religious culture while participating in American civic life."

Thank God for our forefathers who didn't proclaim Christianity and Bible as laws of the land. And in that sense were true multiculturalists.

Thanks for this article.