Comments on: Does 5th Amendment Protect Porn Passwords?

An Encrypted Laptop Poses A Constitutional Dilemma In Vermont Child-Pornography Case

[antoniof123]

I fail to understand your reasoning here. Are you saying all the Government has to do to gain a password is claim "national security"? We have lived through 7 long years of that kind of thinking and that''''s quite enough for me.


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Posted by MCVet at 06:33 AM : Feb 08, 2008

You are so right enough is enough. But breaking the password is not as simple as throwing a super computer. Depending on the encryption could prove next to impossible. I believe my calculation for 138 bit encryption came to 3.40282E+38 it would even be worst for 256 bit encryption 1.15792E 77. And of course there are other process that can be added to make breaking an encryption even harder.

But that was not the issue the issue was you are right MCVet we have had enough of the wing nuts runing this country and I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[mcvet]

This case is getting a lot of attention for a couple reasons, but as far as national security goes it isn''''t important. If it were, they would have broken the password by now. The NSA could break it a few days with super computers. They just aren''''t going to use them on this, especially since there is already such a backlog of national security related crypto stuff waiting to get done.


Posted by matter77 at 11:31 PM : Feb 07, 2008
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I fail to understand your reasoning here. Are you saying all the Government has to do to gain a password is claim "national security"? We have lived through 7 long years of that kind of thinking and that''s quite enough for me.

[archangelric]

look again at the charge "Boucher, was accused of transporting child pornography in interstate or foreign commerce" Doesn''t that mean that he was buying or selling child pornography (which there seems to be no proof of - you would need invoices, etc.)

Let''s get real, folks: anyone who has been on the internet long enough has had their email address forged by spammers to send spam, and been put on spammers lists and sent many unrequested spam emails some of which were pornographic some may have involved child pornography.

Who knows what has been sent and ended up in the junk mail folder only to be deleted automatically.

Further who knows what was sent with a title of "Two year old being raped during diaper change" and "pre teen bondage,"; titles don''t mean anything, especially to hackers who use titles like this to get you to read / download viruses.

Which brings up a question - what if those files were infected and the customs agent destroys the files on the computer?

You also have to watch the definition of ''child''; our states each have different definitions for age of consent, age of drinking; etc. and to assume that the world goes by our definitions is absurd - Germany, Denmark and others have a much earlier age of adulthood than we do.

[Wookiee-1138]

PGP is a powerful system. I have friends who study Computer Forensics. And they swear by it.

[mystixa]

The government is and has been free to inspepct the computer at will. The password is like a narrative in the persons mind.

With the narrative a crime can be resolved. A counterfitter could know the entire story of how the fake money came into existence & if he told that story he would be jailed. That is protected by the 5th amendment. In the same manner that ''narrative'' of a password unravels the mystery that is the encrypted disk on the laptop. With it the entire alleged crime is revealed. So through the revealing of that 1 thought he is incriminating himself, & that cant be allowed.

What is the alternative here.. someone would be jailed for not providing the key? ..jailed for even long if they provided a false one? So what happens if you dont remember the key.. legitimately dont remember it.

What happens if the encryption/decryption programs are just plain broken. So theres a non-repeatable bug that keeps your password from working for whatever reason. Do you jail the person then?

[samthetvcat]

"In another case, an officer found child pornography on the laptop of a man who flew into Los Angeles International Airport from the Philippines. But a federal judge later suppressed the evidence, ruling that electronic storage devices are extensions of the human memory and should not be opened to inspection without cause.

That case did not hinge on a password, though."

This ruling is outrageous - how many people have the contents of their laptops searched? Something must have raised the red flags with security which should be enough to establish probable cause and some sort of ''airport security exception''/''exigent circumstances''. I wonder whether prosecutors appealed - like is this a case of the Ninth circuit COA putting individual liberty WAY ahead of paramount societal concerns like say um security? Grrr!

In contrast, no way the child porn guy''ll be forced to give up his password - 5A ought to protect him for sure. Given the highly disturbing sounding names of the files coupled with border agent testimony of his admission as to the contents that ought to be sufficient to convict, wouldn''t you think?

[glidescube]

I think were are talking fourth amendment and not fifth.

The fourth amendment is about ureasoanble searches.

The fifth amendment covers due process and the right to have a lawyer in crimial cases

Is''nt it the 5th that protects us against self incrimination...that''s why they say ''I plea the fifth.'' So when they ask the guy for the passwords and he declines it''s like he is pleaing the 5th.

[matter77]

This case is getting a lot of attention for a couple reasons, but as far as national security goes it isn''t important. If it were, they would have broken the password by now. The NSA could break it a few days with super computers. They just aren''t going to use them on this, especially since there is already such a backlog of national security related crypto stuff waiting to get done.

[imnho]

I think were are talking fourth amendment and not fifth.

The fourth amendment is about ureasoanble searches.

The fifth amendment covers due process and the right to have a lawyer in crimial cases

[offtheback]

If the owner of a house shows police that illegal material is in a certain room, and then he locks the door to the room, and says the key is hidden and the location of the key is in his mind and claims he is therefore not obligated to divulge the location, ... he would be put in jail until he produces the key. Right? Not right?


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Posted by martin9p2

If, now I''m just spitball''n here, the room was locked already and child porn room was written on the door would that be probabl cause? if so and they could not break down the door they would need to get a warrant and enter by any meens nessasary.

To get in, all they have to do is crash the hard drive, then rebuild it. No info that exists on a hard drive is unretrievable short of sustained major emp or physical destruction.

I still contend that, once they get in, they will GWB and JA in compromising poses.