Comments on: Walrus Latest To Be Threatened By Warming

Sea Ice Melting Leaving Many Stranded On Land, Causing Stampedes, Woes For Other Species

[andor3]

well the CO2Max position, as I understand it, is: the train leaves the station at 12 MPH headed for the arctic. trains are black. carbon is black. god made little green apples. apples are healthy. his SUV is apple green. green practices do not pollute.

therefore global warming is a left-wing, commie conspiracy to take away his big truck!

[co2max]

sorry for the multiple-posts. Connectivity problems here for a moment.

[co2max]

...and on the topic of climate forcing, I offer a simple analogy (in reference to your Occam''s Razor point):
Image climate behavior as a slow-moving freight train. It rumbles through town, speeding and slowly a bit at crossings and congested areas. I am the embodiment of carbon dioxide and I want a ride on that freight train. So I ran as fast as I can to catch up to the cattle car and jump frantically to get onto and find once I''m hanging on to get in that several other free-riders are in the car too. My efforts to catch-up to the train and jump into have added ever so slightly to the forward momentum of the train, but it''s hardly measurable. Meanwhile, the train moves on out of town and goes full-bore once it leaves the city limits.
Yes, I agree fully that it is wise not to make a theory overly complex. But it is equally hazardous to dumb-down the explanation to a single component because it''s all you can come up with.

[jimfinster]

andor3:

I honestly want to hear his explanation of why these basic facts do not add up to warming. I do not claim to be an expert on climate change. But I have followed the science over many years, and I do understand the basics. And the basic premise seems exceptionally simple from a scientific standpoint.

The thing is, there is a huge body of peer-reviewed science that supports human-induced climate change. I am willing to rely on that work. Someone like CO2Max just can''t say they disagree and use silly train analogies to make their position. When someone does that, it indicates an ideological position versus a fact based position...

[andor3]

"CO2Max: You should be a politician, because you totally avoided the basic question."

yeah I noticed that too :-). He writes a lot of stuff, but most of the facts are either incorrect or do not support the thesis. I think he misunderstood when you suggested that she publish her wacky theories and calculations--not on a CBS message board though

[andor3]

So this is the tactic of the deniers: offer a sentence that they supposedly captures the opposition argument, then argue with the sentence. Of course, the trick is that the sentence is completely false and a misrepresentation. Here are a few great examples from right here in this forum:

"we have Historians saying we are about to die from an Ice Age,"

"CO2 simply does not store enough energy"

"According to `the Experts`, humanity should have been extinct 100 times by now."

"The alarm over climate change seems to boil down to the panic over rising seas around the world"

[jimfinster]

Senator CO2Max:

You should be a politician, because you totally avoided the basic question.

You agreed with every point, and the logical conclusion is that the resultant CO2 would increase temperature. Yes or no? If no, why not?

[jimfinster]

CO2Max:

If the train does not matter, go stand on the tracks in front of it :)

[jimfinster]

The World Meteorological Organization''s (WMO) 2005 Greenhouse Gas Bulletin, published Nov. 3, says quantities of CO2 were measured at 379.1 parts per million (ppm), up 0.53 per cent from 377.1 ppm in 2004.

That is 2 ppm per year by my calculator. CO2 increases are accelerating due to developing countries like China.

[co2max]

...and on the topic of climate forcing, I offer a simple analogy (in reference to your Occam''s Razor point):
Image climate behavior as a slow-moving freight train. It rumbles through town, speeding and slowly a bit at crossings and congested areas. I am the embodiment of carbon dioxide and I want a ride on that freight train. So I ran as fast as I can to catch up to the cattle car and jump frantically to get onto and find once I''m hanging on to get in that several other free-riders are in the car too. My efforts to catch-up to the train and jump into have added ever so slightly to the forward momentum of the train, but it''s hardly measurable. Meanwhile, the train moves on out of town and goes full-bore once it leaves the city limits.
Yes, I agree fully that it is wise not to make a theory overly complex. But it is equally hazardous to dumb-down the explanation to a single component because it''s all you can come up with.