Comments on: U.N. Chief: Act Now On Global Warming

Gore Addresses Delegates; Bush Skips Summit, Attends Separate Dinner

[co2max]

abbe91-
Actually, it has been my understanding that the deaths of several million people over the past 3 decades around the world can be traced back to the needless ban on DDT.

People keep dragging out the cigarette-cancer argument to make us skeptics appear ridiculous, but it''s a useless ploy. Medical science is well defined and the connection between known carcinogens in the body and the incidence of the disease is as indisputable as the need for proper nutrition to live a healthy life.
The connection between CO2 in the atmosphere and gradual change in climate is very tenuous, especially when examining cause-and-effect. Take Venus as an example where CO2 in that planet''s atmosphere is extremely high (85% as I recall). Obviously, CO2 plays a role in planetary greenhouse effect, but which caused which? Come back to earth and consider our case where we are talking about a very minor fraction of 1 percent concentration and the role of CO2 in earth''s climate behavior is not well defined at all.

[abbe91]

OK, let me correct myself before somebody else does.
I should have written:

"As for DDT, Africa would seriously suffer from a complete ban on DDT." DDT is still used at some places, but not for agricultural purpose.

[abbe91]

"I cannot believe that there are people still out there saying that global warming is a hoax."

What people question is the role of CO2 in global warming. Nobody (serious) said here that GW was a hoax.

"I bet they think that cigarette smoking is healthy and DDT is just great to use in their yard."

Well, we agree when there is solid science behind it.
Cigarette smoking has been demonstrated to provoke cancer (although second-hand smoke is another question).

As for DDT, Africa is now seriously suffering from the ban on DDT. After starvation, do you know what''s the second cause of mortality in Africa ? And how this disease is propagated ?

"My lord, no wonder the world is in such a mess.
Posted by twylacrat at 03:02 PM : Sep 25, 2007"

[co2max]

A final thought on this:

Mention of Michael Crichton is worthy to observe. He is a fiction writer but his relevance should not be dismissed out-of-hand for that reason alone. As a highly trained medical technologist and an experienced author and several science-based topics, he Crichton does possess credentials and literary talent to address global warming and give everyone concerned something to think about. I give him a C- for his story line in "State of Fear" but I give him a solid A for provocation in that writing because of how he dealt with the issue that is the focus of that book and this thread.

In similar fashion, I would recommend "Nightfall," a novel by Isaac Asimov which treats the subject of a hypothetical society on a planet that exists in a multiple-star system. Astronomers discover that at some point in the near future all the suns will be in conjunction resulting in a unique event--total darkness (complete night) that has not been experienced in memorable history. The story outlines preparations, fear and results of a harmless event. It has bearing on global warming, because I sincerely feel that global warming as we see it, is a continuation of what has been going on for generations and is not a danger to us collectively.

[co2max]

celetes-
Should you happen to return to this thread...
Not that I wanted to say that carbon dioxide is the only greenhouse gas. Instead, so many who promote the Anthropogenic nature of global warming are very strongly of the opinion or conviction that only carbon dioxide matters. This is clearly not the case. If events happen to proceed to the point where the methane hydrates in various locations are released, everyone will realize quickly that carbon dioxide is a weak brother to methane in the greenhouse arena. These clathrate releases have taken place before at points in the distant past and they have account for some of the quick and notable swings in climate that I have talked about today. It is difficult geologically to pinpoint such events historically except to take note of the atmospheric methane-content excursions that are written in the strata.

[twylacrat]

I cannot believe that there are people still out there saying that global warming is a hoax. I bet they think that cigarette smoking is healthy and DDT is just great to use in their yard. My lord, no wonder the world is in such a mess.

[clestes-2009]

CO2Max,

no problem.

Nobody said CO2 is the only green house gas?? Where did you get that idea??

I will do the math myself and check it out.

[co2max]

celestes-
I have been all over the CO2 equation and it doesn''t add up. If one assumes from the start that carbon dioxide is the only variable in forcing climate change, that would be a purely logical conclusion to make, but this is not the case.

Unfortunately, I have to go elsewhere, so I''m done here till this evening.

I have enjoyed this discussion.

[clestes-2009]

CO2Max,

Sigh.....

Do the math in the earlier post. All figures are available.

You agree CO2 is a warming gas, right?? Even if it is not as bad as some others, it makes up for it in quantity. Take a good look at the figures and then come back and tell me that CO2 is not important in the current climate changes.

[co2max]

celestes-
You should approach this as an effort on your part to try to convince me. It obviously cannot be done in a forum such as this. I am willing to be convinced if the conviction can be achieved with sincerity, but in the general market of extremist claims and voodoo science out there, that is hard to get.

My bottom line is that carbon dioxide alone cannot be held accountable for the all the climate change that has happened in the last 50, 100 or 150 years. Natural forces are far more believable as the cause for such behavior.