Comments on: Autism-Vaccine Link Gets Day In Court

Families Take On Mainstream Medicine, Claim Vaccines Caused Neurological Disorders

[looking4help-2009]

look, I don''t know if the vaccines are related to autism ot not: but i do know that my perfectly healthy son got his shots and then within a couple months lost his vocabulary and his diet. He was diagnosed with autism after that. Fir those of you out there who think this court hearing is a waist of time: if your child or loved one was diagnosed with ANY disease, wouldn''t you want the professionals to do whatever it took to find out the cause and prevent it from happening anymore? I hope this court procedding gets the attention it deserves. Not for the money, but for the benifit if the prevention on autism.

[teeus]

Everybody wants their free money. That''''s all this is about and you all know it.
Posted by rf35

Oh, yes, like all those thalidomide babies and their parents. Sheesh, what would those people possibly wnat conpensation for?

[lucasnico]

I''''m not a Big Pharma plant; I''''m a university professor with a Ph.D. in pharmacology, and with no ties to the pharmaceutical industry. The reason I mention I''''m a professor is to illustrate that I have the training to be able to evaluate the science that I read - and I well understand the difference between correlation and causality. Earlier I posted a link to a Wikipedia article that provides references to a wide variety of studies that show no link between MMR vaccine and autism. These MANY studies have been persuasive enough for the CDC, National Academy of Sciences and the UK Natl. Health Service to all declare no evidence of a link between the two. But if you want to believe in fairy tales, knock yourself out. Incidentally there was an increase in measles (and deaths) in the UK after vaccination rates dropped due to the bogus Wakefield Lancet paper, so know that if you don''''t vaccinate your kid, you are putting him at risk.

Posted by rational_1 at 12:26 PM : May 12, 2008

If you are basing your argument/opinion on a Wikipedia post, then you must be a community college professor!

[rf35]

Everybody wants their free money. That''s all this is about and you all know it.

[lucasnico]

Maybe it''''s the preservatives that have caused so many children to develope autism. They are pretty much in everything we eat, maybe that''''s the cause of a lot of our medical problems.

(Posted by alexma50085 at 02:12 PM : May 12, 2008)

A very real possibility and great insight....thank you!

[teeus]

But thats an impossible question to answer - you cant prove a negative like that. Say someone took their kid to Disneyland a year before the child started showing signs of autism. No one could definitively prove that exposure to Mickey Mouse didnt cause autism in that particular child.
Posted by rational_1

Lets say I go to Disneyland and a year later get lung cancer. Can you prove that Mickey didnt cause it?

Of course you can. You can look at the number of times Mickey had contact with people who didnt develop lung cancer, other environmental links to said cancer, break down what aspect of Micky is the likely carcinogen (radio-active gloves? second-hand smoke? tar and nicotine hugs?) etc etc

[teeus]

Maybe its the preservatives that have caused so many children to develope autism. They are pretty much in everything we eat, maybe thats the cause of a lot of our medical problems.
Posted by alexma50085

The. Preservative. Is. Thimerisol. Yes, thats what we have been saying.

[newsthought1]

What is in vaccines? Here is a breakdown, including those flu preparations with thimerosal:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

[alexma50085]

But many of these childhood vaccinations have long shelf lives--because there are preseveratives in them.

Posted by teeus

Maybe it''s the preservatives that have caused so many children to develope autism. They are pretty much in everything we eat, maybe that''s the cause of a lot of our medical problems.

[rational_1]

"this doesnt mean that the vaccinations maybe causing problems in a subset of the population with tolerence issues" and "we can''''t prove it DOESNT cause autism either."
Posted by teeus at 01:50 PM : May 12, 2008

But that''s an impossible question to answer - you can''t prove a negative like that. Say someone took their kid to Disneyland a year before the child started showing signs of autism. No one could definitively prove that exposure to Mickey Mouse didn''t cause autism in that particular child.

[rational_1]

teeus, I looked through the paper you cited and you are correct about what it says. I then wondered what the more recent paper I cited had to say about the paper you cited and found this comment about it.

''A recent second report concluded that a rise and fall in the marginal quarterly increase of DDS autism clients "correspond(s) directly with the expansion and subsequent contraction of the cumulative mercury dose to which children were exposed from TCVs through the US immunization schedule."(p8) This report is fundamentally limited because it evaluated the trend in quarterly increases in DDS autism clients without consideration of the age of all or new clients or of the population denominator. When we instead analyzed DDS data to measure prevalence for all autism clients by birth year or by age, we found no fall in autism prevalence to correspond with declining thimerosal exposure.''

I guess, like with most science, eventually a consensus will be reached based on accumulation of weight of evidence.

[teeus]

Teeus, please answer something for me. I have an autistic child too, so I am sympathetic but... what would you say if, 15 years from now, it is proven without question that autism is genetic?
Posted by lambofgoth

I would be thankful that the question has been thouroughly asked and answered. I don''t think that vaccinations cause all cases of autism--after all it was around long before the MMR. Im not even saying it caused my sons autism. Frankly, I think we say signs before 18 months.

But, if you read the fine print of every study that says "no link", you will see variations on "this doesnt mean that the vaccinations maybe causing problems in a subset of the population with tolerence issues" and "we can''t prove it DOESNT cause autism either."

Why else does some member of congress (ie lobbyists for Big Pharm) attempt to slip in legislation in every omnibus bill that comes along that protects these companies from any future lawsuits?

I just don''t think the question has been fully answered.

[teeus]

Um, vaccines ALL have an expiration date, they do not store well, so what you are claiming isnt so, unless you want to now claim they are ALSO distributing vaccines past their printed expiration dates.
Posted by newster1

Sigh. Of course they have expiration dates. But many of these childhood vaccinations have long shelf lives--because there are preseveratives in them.

There are some vaccinations that expire very quickly. There are some that dont.

[lambofgoth]

"Trail Lawyers Association" says demslie... is that like, lawyers that hike? What''s a trail lawyer?
Teeus, please answer something for me. I have an autistic child too, so I am sympathetic but... what would you say if, 15 years from now, it is proven without question that autism is genetic?

[teeus]

Actually they have been monitoring autism levels since thimerosal was removed and not finding decreases in autism. Go to the Pubmed site http://
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
Posted by rational_1

Okay, I''ll look up your and you can look up mine:

March 10, 2006, issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JPandS.org) shows that since mercury was removed from childhood vaccines, the alarming increase in reported rates of autism and other neurological disorders (NDs) in children not only stopped, but actually dropped sharply %u2013 by as much as 35 percent.

[teeus]

"...No, it was removed and you have ALWAYS been able to order, fresh thimerisol free vaccines if you choose to...
...Autism-LIKE symptoms, it''''s not even Autism"
Posted by MyOpinion1

What does the fact that you could order special vaccinations have to do with anything? You would need to know about it in order to ask for it. Thats assuming your Dr. would humor you and special order it, delaying the vaccination, and assuming you could afford it because your insurance wont cover it.

And dont get too hung up on "Autism-like" as though it proves something. People say it because there is no test that "turns the sample blue" that identifies autism. If you have flu-like symptoms, does that mean you dont really have the flu? Or does it just mean that there is not test to prove it?

[nothappyatall]

See video.google.com/videoplay?docid=319371121952493016

Fluoride & the Atomic Bomb: Harold Hodge''s Conflict of Interest

In this interview, journalist Christopher Byrson discusses the life of Dr. Harold Hodge. Hodge was a key scientific figure in the early promotion of water fluoridation in the U.S. Hodge''s interest in fluoride stemmed from his work with the Manhatten Project & Atomic Energy Commission, where he studied the toxicity of fluoride and uranium - two chemicals of key importance to the U.S. bomb program.

[demslie]

You have all missed the point. The entire purpose of this story is to generate revenue for the Trail Lawyers Association which is the largest CASH contributor to the DNC. Democrat slimee trial lawyers have contributed Billions to Democrat Campaigns. The purpose of this story is to justify the Billions of Dollars that Trial Lawyers plan on getting from suing for damages. When the trial lawyers sued Dow Corning for the damage caused by Silicone Breast Implants, the Democrat news media carried all sorts of %u201Cstories%u201D about doctors and researchers who agreed. As it turned out, that was all lies by Democrats. There was no evidence of wrong doing. Dow Corning went out of business after paying more than Seven Billions Dollars. 16,000 people were put out of work when all the subsidiaries failed and the 250 thousand claimants got nothing. The Democrat Trail Lawyers got Billions to buy more yachts and mansions. And the end result, the 20 year CDC research showed no evidence of harm and Silicone Breast Implants can now be sold again in America. And the Slime Democrat Trial Lawyers are back to do the same thing all over again with vaccine companies. Democrats are really good for America.

[nothappyatall]

"Fluoridation ... it is the greatest fraud that has ever been perpetrated and it has been perpetrated on more people than any other fraud has."Professor Albert Schatz, Ph.D. (Microbiology), Discoverer of streptomycin and Nobel Prize Winner

14th Nov 2005 - Most of Western Europe has now abandoned fluoridation of water due to a lack of evidence as to its effectiveness and concerns about major side-effects. 98% of Europe is now free of fluoridated water.

see:http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fluoride.htm

[nothappyatall]

Fluoride - More Acutely Toxic Than Lead
Fluoride is a powerful poison - more acutely poisonous than lead. This explains why fluoride is the active ingredient in many pesticides and rodenticides. It also explains why accidental over-ingestion of fluoride can cause serious toxic symptoms.

Malfunctioning water-fluoridation equipment, leading to excess levels of fluoride in water, has been another periodic source of acute fluoride poisoning.

http://www.lovethetruth.com/truth_about_fluoride.htm

http://poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html/symptoms.html



Symptoms of Fluoride Poisoning

%u201CThough apparently vague and non-specific, most of the symptoms of fluoride toxicity point towards some kind of profound metabolic dysfunction, and are strikingly similar to the symptoms of Hypothyroidism.%u201D

http://poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/

August 2002 - Belgium becomes the first country in the world to prohibit fluoride supplements Fluoride tablets, fluoride drops and fluoride chewing gum, for decades promoted as the crown jewels of dentistry, are going to be taken off the market because they are poisonous and pose a great risk for physical and psychological health. This has been decided by the Federal Minister of Public Health.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fluoride.htm