Comments on: Vaccine-Autism Link Case Goes To Court

Precedent-Setting Claim Over Whether Child's Autism Was Caused By Common Vaccines

[gaye5]

Shmedley1 spoken very well and you are so right, we are in the midst of an epidemic of autism. We are also in the midst of an epidemic of childhood cancers, diabetes, ADD, asthmas, etc..and still people dont wake up.

As I have said on here before, my husband has taught over 1300 children, and been a principal of many schools, and left the profession 10 years ago, and we only knew of one child who had autism, NO children who died of any cancers,and up until the last 20 years only a very few children who had asthma and diabetes. In his early teaching days he knew of only the very odd child with asthma, but before he left teaching when he used to take children on camp, over half had puffers for asthma, and over half had to line up each day for their drugs...
Of course IF autism was there 40 years ago it wouldn't have been called autism, but any principal would have heard of families who had a problem child..
Shmedley1 the reasons that these numbers dont get everyone's attention is because of the smoke screens and deceptions that the pharmaceutical companies put out.. they claim that these problems are not caused by them but that they have always been there or that it is some other reason... I am hoping that someone will keep the old stats so as they cannot be fudged in the future..

[teeus]

"...but I doubt that many on the other side of the issue have given the time of day to most of the questions I raised..."

That's a cheap shot. I responded to your "questions" a ways back. Did you not read it, or are you choosing to ignore it?

[sy2502]

glb1969,
actually, Shmedley1 seems a very reasonable person that debates in a civilized manner, so I don't want to paint him/her with the broad brush, but generally speaking, I do have to say that most people who completely discount evolution seem to have some inexplicable prevention against science. Warning sign are:

- Picking and choosing which science is "good" or "bad" on the basis of whether it supports their claim rather than how scientifically sound it is.
- Discounting sound mainstream science that contradicts them by claiming ulterior motives and conspiracy theories. At the same time obscure minorities are seen as champions of the truth.
- Failure to be as skeptical of the supporting arguments as of the dissenting ones.
- Belief in something until proven false, instead of skepticism of far-fetched ideas until proven correct.

Personally I have learned volumes from this thread and I have changed my position on some aspects of the issues, although nobody has convinced me yet that vaccines give autism, but I doubt that many on the other side of the issue have given the time of day to most of the questions I raised.

[teeus]

glb1969
Now, now. Don't lump us all in together. As much as I appreciate Shmedley's kind words and support, I think people who don't believe in evolution are seriously wacky.

You're being awfully sanctimonious, though: "...Before, I was trying to enlighten you and point out the pratfalls in ignoring logic and science..."

How about the fact that the much ballyhooed Danish study changed it's criteria and methodology halfway through the study? In what scientific forum would that be acceptable?

Every time you read "NO LINK" stories try this: Try to find where it says that it's proven that vaccinations ARE NOT to blame. Trust me--you won't find one. They all say the same thing--we can't find a link, but we can't disprove it either.

And not every prominent researcher is in the "NO LINK" camp. Several researchers for the CDC have admitted that they feel there may be a link after all.

No one is advocating a return to the middle ages when no one received any vaccinations at all. No one said we should get rid of polio shots after thalidomide. But how about safe shots? If this stuff is so safe, why was it banned from animal vaccinations YEARS ago?

[roxygirl5674]

I am a 26 year old mother of one. She was born in 2006. I personally believe that the vaccine they say caused her child's autism ...did in fact cause it.
I have studied and read up on many effects of the drugs and i have weighed my options. I have a pharmacy degree...but personal opinion is why i will not let my daughter receive this vaccine. People can judge those of us who are afraid of loosing our children to autism all they want but the fact of the matter is that i feel i am protecting my daughter and her best interests. I am betting that by the time my daughter enters into school...this vaccine formula will not be the same as it is today. After much research i feel as a parent i have to make this decision for her.
If you read about vaccines they all have side effects. No one has related autism to the vaccine and had it changed because the "legal" perspective of changing it is harder than just letting our children become one of the 1/150 that do get autism. That would entail accepting the fact that they gave our children something harmful. My grandmother had measles as a child and my mother had mumps..they are still here today.

[glb1969]

I quote the infamous Schedley yet again, "Also - hate to burst your bubble, but, evolution doesn't exist. "

WHAT? Oh, now I get it, you are religiously insane, and cannot possibly think in a rational/scientific way as you have been likely infected with religion your whole life. Too bad, I have met your kind before and there is no talking any reason to them, their disease prevents any other viewpoint (no matter how logical and scientifically proven) from displacing the fantasy world they see all around them.

So, Schmedley, I am sure you prayed to your "gods" for help with the autism issue. Where did that get you? NOWHERE. Before, i was trying to enlighten you and point out the pratfalls in ignoring logic and science, but I can see there is no point. Very few infected with religion ever recover. Should you go into remission, send me a line and I will be more than happy to return to debate. Until then, have a good life until the next epidemic hits.

[desimomof4]

As parents we do not owe anyone else anything. Our children trust us to take care of them not take care of an entire community. That community needs to take care of themselves and if they're vaccinated and my child is not (which they all are), then they won't catch the horrible disease that my child will pick up spontaneously and spread throughout the world.

[sy2502]

I have no plans on letting them play in the sewer or with fecies, so polio is not a concern.
Posted by Shmedley1 at 02:18 PM : Jun 13, 2007

Can you be 100% sure that people around your child can't communicate any such diseases? Look at SARS, and the recent TB case. All you have to do is sit next to somebody on the plane. America has countless immigrants and visitors from countries where these diseases are a problem. Can you confirm their hygienic standards are at the same level of yours? The only way to be sure is to eradicate the disease altogether, as was done with smallpox, through vaccines.

[sullytrips06]

To GLB, obviously you are not a parent. Upon becoming a parent of triplets in 2006, I now know that the only people that really matter are the small miracles my husband and I brought into the world. Have you written data supporting your theory that mass immunizations have actually been responsible for the decline in the diseases they claim to prevent? Look at a graph of all of the diseases from the 19th century on and you will see that these very diseases were almost completely eradicted prior to the start of mass immunizations. Do some more research and get back to me. As a parent, the individual needs of your own children and family HAVE to come before anyone or anything else.

[dcduke6]

Like I said yesterday - People that can post such terrible & cruel things are what makes this a crazy world for those who are autistic to live in. People who obviously have not had one on one experience with Autism, Never saw thier perfectly normal child change almost overnight after vaccines. With that said - Why dont you just remain silent. All of us are here to be informed, not ridiculed, and definetly do not lack stress day to day... but most of all do not need someone who hasnt a clue post such terrible thngs. Use all that spare time to go do some good ... perhaps go visit with some autistic individuals and help them.

[dcduke6]

I think what most of us want is to be able to vaccinate our children w/o harmful preservatives that have obviously in some way struck a rise in Autism. I am not against vaccinating my son. However I would not allow him to have multiple vaccines at one time & I would never allow anything w/Thimerosal in his system. This rules out the flu vaccine that not only has had adverse affects on causing people to become extremely ill & I will not give him the chicken pox vaccine as my son's pediatrician that quit her practice to go to Iraq said she would not have her children vaccinated with it - Perhaps she was telling me something then.

[shmedley1]

I see GLB you couldn't resist and had to come back for more. As stated in earlier posts - when you can refute what either myself or others have sent and have anything close (even relatively) to an intelligent answer, please, write away. Until then ill-informed one, your rants speak volumes and you need not me nor anyone else to point out how uneducated you really are, your words speak for themselves.
Also - hate to burst your bubble, but, evolution doesn't exist. Have a great day GLB!
By the way - who let Eli-Lilly on the Boards?

[glb1969]

I Quote the infamous schmedley yet again, "And GLB... the day your needs outweigh the needs of myself or my children, will be the day I'm 6 feet under. "

I totally agree! You still don't get the big brain bit, do you? That was not what I said. My point is that the needs of the MANY (not me nor you, nor any individual) outweigh the needs of the individual.

Only a narrow minded small individual could possibly be so selfish as to put their own self needs ahead of that of the community or species. It is precisely this narrow minded non scientific perspective that you have embraced that needs to be stamped out. So go ahead, make sure your children are not immunized, when they die from a preventable communicable disease that will ensure your genes will never contribute to the global human gene pool. In the end your argument is self defeating as your offspring won't still be here to tell you how wrong you were.


Evolution is a wonderful thing, it weeds out those foolish enough not to survive.

[jflecha-2009]

As a mother of a 31 year old Autistic son I totally agreed that the vaccinations were the reason for my son's Autism. He was fine and normal until he had his second series of shots, which caused him to have an seizure and the doctor decided just to give him smaller doses after that. The change in him was unexplainable. 31 years ago things were very different than they are now. The treatments for these children were basic and nonconclusive. It was basically trial and error. I devoted my life to make sure that my son got the education and treatment that I felt he had a right too regardless of what the so called experts kept telling me. I was told that I was young and that I could have more children, they sugguested that I make him a ward of the state and put him in an institution.
Today I can say that he not only finished high school but he went to college for 5 years and started driving two years ago. If I had listen to them where would my son be now?
My only regret is that I was young and couldn't prove that it was the vaccinations. So I am happy to see someone call the drs on it.

[shmedley1]

Pt. II

Why I don't personally go after the above is simply, I only have so much time. I don't make it a point to go after vaccines, again, to each their own - what I do make it a point to do is make people aware that adverse events can and do happen; but I don't advocate a person to swing either way, it's their choice.
I'm sorry to hear about your mother/family/ friends. Just as you advocate because you've seen adverse events happen from the disease, will be the same reason why you see others advocate against the vaccines, that has also seen adverse events supposedly from the cure. Considering that immunizations do not equal immunity, I am not concerned one way or the other for my children. I have no plans on letting them play in the sewer or with fecies, so polio is not a concern. Everything else in the environment is also risky -all I can do is to try and keep my children as healthy and as natural as I can. One thing that scientists and doctors will agree upon is that no one has an understanding of the immune system. I find it fascinating and extremely sophisticated. I will let the immune system do its job, but that's all just my opinion.

[shmedley1]

Pt. I
Hello Sy2502, nice to see you again. Note, I am not here to convince you, or anyone else, what they should or should not do for themselves or thier children. That is for each person to decide. Whether a person chooses to do something based on knowledge, hearsay or assumption, is completely their own business. I only advocate for myself - and my children.
Regarding your message - the article I don't believe implies anyone can submit an article or journal - I believe however what it implied is that ghostwriters very much exist. I chose to send you that one because it had names attached in it that you could look up later if you so chose to validate the authenticy.
Regarding the skepticism of taking studies that correlate to autism to vaccine - yes, one can take it if they're on the opposition side that those studies are flawed. I believe it's fair to say one cannot have it both ways. This is why, I just read all available information on both sides and drew my own conclusions - it's what I chose to believe; this is not to say that others will draw the same conclusion; to each their own.
The other items you mention which contain mercury - you are correct, they do. There are multiple organizations that are seeking to end mercury fillings. Many dentists on their own have also made the change.

[sy2502]

Shmedley1, thank you for another really interesting link. Unfortunately, the article implies that anybody can just send an article to a serious medical journal and be published. If you have ever tried to get a scientific publication out, you'd know this is not true. Submitted articles are painstakinlgy scrutinized.
Also, the same argument can be made for the studies or articles that supposedly confirm the vaccine and autism link, right? Why should we take one with skepticism and not the other?
Also, we all agree that mercury is bad, but nobody has yet answered my earlier question: mercury is found in many products: food, dental fillings, batteries, fluorescent bulbs, metal objects, paint, etc. Can you PLEASE explain to me why you are not going after all these things and instead you are attacking something that can actually be good for you, like vaccines, which on top of it, contain a tiny percentage of mercury compared to that you absorb from all these other sources?
The reason I advocate for vaccines, by the way, is that my mom contracted diphteria as a child and almost died. She recovered, but with permanent kidney and heart damage. One of her best friends I remember from my childhood had been disabled by polio. Another good friend of mine almost died from complications from mumps which also made him steril. I have seen how terrible these preventable diseases can be, while I have never seen any of the claimed side effects. So forgive me for needing some serious convincing.

[shmedley1]

And GLB... the day your needs outweigh the needs of myself or my children, will be the day I'm 6 feet under.

[shmedley1]

GLB is leaving? Awww.............. gee, and your arguments were so factual - oh well - another one bites the dust!
I'm assuming you are actually leaving because you have nothing to back you up, only your worthless opinions which have been refuted multiple times so far.
Enjoy your day.

[glb1969]

I am truly shocked at the number of posts be people who are failing to even attempt to grasp the scientific method. Correlations and anecdotal evidence are not facts people!

In the end, (as I am leaving because it's clear many here are so emotional over the issue they cannot be impartial enough to debate rationally), I suppose it comes down to whether we the people through our legislative bodies are willing to allow those who are misguided enough to ignore the science behind the studies (whether you disagree with methodology of a particular study or not, clearly there is a consensus amongst most reputable scientists that Thimerosol is not the causative agent and I am only responding to that specific component no other) endanger their child. Personally, I am advocating for the end of any exceptions (especially religious) to bypass the public need for vaccinations.

In the end, no single individual has the right to endanger the rest of the populace, even if it means saving their own live.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the individual. That is an absolute, and don't think for a moment that we have any intention of allowing you health terrorists to jeopardize our mutual security. Why do you think the DPH collects records on who fails to be immunized? So we can deploy mandatory vaccination teams when needed.