Comments on: TB Patient: "I'm Very Sorry"

Atlanta Attorney With Dangerous Strain Of Tuberculosis Says CDC "Abandoned" Him In Europe

[vancenc9]

Okay, if we were talking about a drunk driver,that killed someone, they would most definatly be charged! Now, I'm not a smart person, but even I know about TB, and the dangers of passing it on to others. When a docter advises you not to travel, DON'T!!!

[susanhelit]

Interesting that he knew how bad this was, and still left on his honeymooon, isn't it. He knew, he thought, before he even left that without treatment in Denver, he might die. But he still goes off to play, and spread the disease around.

In Rome he got the added news that this was in fact the worst possible, drug resistant TB, and he should go to the hospital immediately to avoid exposing anyone else (for fear of an epidemic of TB cases that cannot be cured, an epidemic of dead people, caused by him). He chose to instead evade the law, fly into Canada (again, more proof he knew).

[susanhelit]

andor3, can't you read? He said, himself, in his own words, in an interview that HE chose to give, that he knew BEFORE the trip. He packed masks. He had a meeting with the CDC and taped it - BEFORE the trip. Here, I'll even quote it for you, just in case your scroll bar is broken:


Speaker said he felt as if the CDC had suddenly "abandoned him." He said he believed if he did not get back to a specialized clinic in Denver, he would die.

Speaker's father, also a lawyer, taped a meeting with the CDC prior to leaving for his honeymoon.

"Before I left, I knew that it was made clear to me, that in order to fight this, I had one shot, and that was going to be in Denver," he said. If doctors in Europe tried to treat him and it went wrong, he said, "it's very real that I could have died there."

[susanhelit]

This guy has done plenty wrong. He was told he was contagious, with a deadly, drug resistant disease. He was ordered to go to a hospital, and told not to fly, that he was so far forbidden to fly that he was on the Do-Not-Fly list. At that point, right there, he chose to ignore all of this, to risk the lives of every single person he came anywhere near, and go fly and drive around, rather than go to the hospital where he could be prevented from passing his disease on.


We may be lucky. It may be that all the hundreds of people he exposed were healthy enough to fight the illness off. That doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime - if you fire a gun at a bunch of people, and miss, you did commit a crime. But even if we are so very lucky, all these hundreds of people have had to be tracked down and tested, have to spend 2 months worrying, waiting for the second test. That's a ton of money and fear he's cost a bunch of people who were just unlucky enough to be on the same plane as he chose.


He did plenty wrong - ethically, legally. He's a lousy selfish egotistical jerk who decided his wishes came above anyone else's life.

[andor3]

"BEFORE HE LEFT, BEFORE THE TRIP, BEFORE THE PLANE TRAVEL THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS HE KNEW:"

actually that isn't what he said before the trip.

"Does that sound like a person who did not understand how serious his illness is?"

Yes that was my point. It requires a bit of putting two concepts together--the CDC only contacted him in Europe, not the US. "before he left" he was in Europe.

"...are people culpable for intent or only for what actually occurred?"

moot point as I see no solid evidence anything bad occurred or that he intended to cause harm. Of course we'll see what is discovered in the investigations, bur for now he is presumed innocent--it's a fundamental belief in the US. I could see at most negligence, but with the facts coming out even that is a stretch.

"Consider Padilla ..."

now I really see desperation, no connection at all there.

[slipster01]

He was wrong, selfish, and an idiot, all rolled up into a new media darling.

He's gonna have his 15 minutes of fame, even if it kills innocent bystanders.

[slipster01]

He was wrong, selfish, and an idiot, all rolled up into a new media darling.

He's gonna have his 15 minutes of fame, even if it kills innocent bystanders.

[toldyouso21]

His actions fit someone who was not made aware that he was contagious or seriously ill--people like that do not travel thousands of miles from home and away from familiar medical help. Posted by andor3 at 07:59 PM : Jun 01, 2007


WELL..HIS WORDS SURE DON'T ....

BEFORE HE LEFT, BEFORE THE TRIP, BEFORE THE PLANE TRAVEL THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS HE KNEW:


"Before I left, I knew that it was made clear to me, that in order to fight this, I had one shot, and that was going to be in Denver," he said. If doctors in Europe tried to treat him and it went wrong, he said, "it's very real that I could have died there."

Be careful who you defend--he already made an azz out of himself and those who rush to his aid while failing to really read or comprehend the information --join him on the azz wagon.

[toldyouso21]

But for now the worst thing that we know he did was travel against medical advice. His actions fit someone who was not made aware that he was contagious or seriously ill--people like that do not travel thousands of miles from home and away from familiar medical help. Posted by andor3 at 07:59 PM : Jun 01, 2007

I know the article was long--so you may have missed this: "Speaker said he felt as if the CDC had suddenly "abandoned him." He said he believed if he did not get back to a specialized clinic in Denver, he would die. "Before I left, I knew that it was made clear to me, that in order to fight this, I had one shot, and that was going to be in Denver," he said. If doctors in Europe tried to treat him and it went wrong, he said, "it's very real that I could have died there."

Does that sound like a person who did not understand how serious his illness is? As for what he did or did not do--are people culpable for intent or only for what actually occurred? Consider Padilla is being tried on intending to terrorize Americans. he never got around to it--but he was held 3 years based on that premise and now could face death for that premise....this is where we are right now in this country. Now. Since the intent was to delay treatment, enjoy himself and later to circumvent health orders even though told about a deadly disease and not to fly on public planes--please post again, how everyone is jumping to conclusions?

[andor3]

There's not much clear about this case--so many missing pieces. It's not clear he did anything wrong or hurt anyone else. Evidence may come out in time that says he did more, and there is plenty of time and plenty of investigation happening to find out.

But for now the worst thing that we know he did was travel against medical advice. His actions fit someone who was not made aware that he was contagious or seriously ill--people like that do not travel thousands of miles from home and away from familiar medical help.

Meanwhile contaminated peanut butter has poisoned hundreds. This guy is only breathing and no sign as of yet he has hurt anyone.

For that matter, where did he get the bug?

What outrages me is all the people rushing to condemn this guy to any number of horrible and inappropriate punishments. Those people are the one lacking priority and perspective. In this case they may get their due if he later sues for libel, slander, defamation, loss of reputation, wrongful detention, etc...

[oneladymom]

do ya think viruses or bacteria care about political affiliation? Posted by toldyouso21

That's my point, well said. It will kill the rich, the poor, and the middle class, and not care.

The point that I think other's were making is we all can be selfish. But I have a problem when people start sterotyping.

[toldyouso21]

I think I must add that Amphotericin B is NOT an antibiotic---in extreme cases where it is obvious no other antibiotic can work, amphotericin B can be used--but it always has to be weighed since this drug can easily kill a person. You may ask why use it? Because when nothing else can work and people are down to the wire--then the big guns come out. This is probably why the success rate is only about 30%. Chemo drugs have to carefully calibrated to a persons health and immune state--this can change from day to day. Amphotericin B is also not necessarily a chemo drug either. It has its uses against cancer, but it was and is one of the big guns for mycotic infections. Mycotic infections in immune weakened people--specifically with lung infections are highly fatal--they act just like this TB--extremely resistant to treatment, hides easily in the lung--progresses slowly at first --but can be very agressive and suffocates the person to death. The trick--to reach and kill all of it and try to kill less of the good part of the person.

But Amphotericin attacks EVERYTHING, and is especially hard on the kidneys upon excretion (usually resulting in renal failure)

[erasmus6]

toldyouso21 - Good one!

[toldyouso21]

This guy is definetly a democrat. He's self centered, he's number one, his needs and wants are foremost. A quick apology, blame SOMEONE else and all is well. Typical dem!!
Posted by janem4 at 07:40 PM : Jun 01, 2007


LOL. Been replacing all the Republican denigration with the word Democrat, have you? Here's the thing....do ya think viruses or bacteria care about political affiliation? Not only for who they infect first--but for others they may come in contact with? Is it THAT slow on the political sites today? rotflmao.

[mccerceo]

oneladymom...you are right!! XDR is not curable. The only thing that will help this jerk is to cut out the infected piece of his lung at this point...how considerate of him to have possibly put so many others in the same boat as himself...

[toldyouso21]

The reason Andrew stands a better chance with his first series of treatments is that he will not yet have been weakened by too many courses of treatment. TB is a wimpy bacteria. In a normal healthy person, it is often simply eaten by microphages in a body or destroyed by the body. But if a person is weak, they simply cannot marshall the right defenses, so the TB can get a foothold. The thing about the wimpy diseases, is that they are hard for a healthy person to be taken down --but almost impossible to cure if a weak person gets them. The reason is what I described earlier. Having never been treated--Andrew has a great chance. His body can take the flooding with drugs and though he will be weakened, he has the element of surprise. The trick is, how good a foothold the TB has and if it will continue to respond to their drug choice until it is all gone. If it does not--they probably will go to surgery. The reason is, if they subject him to another round of a different or stronger drug--the drugs could kill him. What they are doing is taking an educated gamble--strong enough to kill all of the bug and leave the man alive--they know they pretty much have only a limited arsenal, before he is too weak to survive the next treatment choice.

[toldyouso21]

have had some medical experience not as extensive as yourself, I do appreciate you taking the time to share of some of your expertise with us. toldyouso21
Posted by ONELADYMOM at 07:26 PM : Jun 01, 2007


well. thank you. I actually do not have a medical background--I have a scientific background, I was in the industry that makes some of these products and tells drs what they do and how to use them--knowledge is power--and once you get past all the fancy words--these things are something anyone who wants to know can understand. Just remember this if cancer is ever on the horizon--cancer drugs are poisons. they poison everything they touch and kill it. When you are told to go for chemo--the trick is the same--to hopefully kill all of the cancer without killing you--so make sure you are in the best of health before starting or letting a loved one start--they have drugs to increase the WBC and RBC count--they are pretty nasty too and they also may give you immunosuppressive drugs (to keep your body from fighting too much) If you ever have cancer and are asthmatic--find out if the drugs they want to give you and the ones you are on make a difference--because many drugs for asthma are said not to be steroidal, but they still depress your immune system. This is important--because when a person is described as medically weak or debilitate---it is the state of your immune sys. that is really being described.

[oneladymom]

I have had some medical experience not as extensive as yourself, I do appreciate you taking the time to share of some of your expertise with us. toldyouso21

[toldyouso21]

Many of the people (like HIV patients and the elderly) often die from the drugs they are given while the bacteria still lives. it should be known that naturally immunosuppressed people (like AIDS patients and diabetes miellitus patients) easily die from opportunistic infections like TB--this is because they are in a very weak state and the body has to be flooded by drugs--this is called a systemic treatment because it goes through the entire system for weeks or months (IV). Many drugs that have to be resorted to--also kill regular cells and cause liver and kidney and even brain and heart damage. This is the same for neoplastics (chemo) drugs--people do not know this--but many many people do not actually die of the disease they have, they die from the drugs used to treat them. When you get to drugs like Amphotericin B--or methotrexate--these are nasty drugs--they kill parts of you--the trick is--to kill all of the bug--before you kill the person. The success rate is low--because once weakened, it is easy to overshoot and kill the person.

[oneladymom]

Yes there are a good many selfish rich people and I bet there is just as many selfish middle class and poor people as well.
Posted by erasmus6

What is this? people, people, people.