Comments on: TB Patient: Quarantine Conditions "Insane"

Feds Frantically Search For 80 Passengers, 27 Crew On Flights With Infected Man

[toldyouso21]

And as a lay person, what would you have seen had they shown a petri dish? In 1993, I handled a classified substance at a biolevel 3 facility (class 10). Something got on the my hand, between the opening of my glove and the integrity of my cleanroom suit. I immediately decontaminated then waited for hours in isolation while I was gone over. I recognized that in handling this substance (biovaccine labs) that I was better off being the only one at risk. Only until after the substance was identified and found to be innocuous was I allowed to be debriefed and left.

Even then, I made my family stay away from me, and took extra precautions. No one person is worth the life of any other besides their own. I don't know where this absolute paranoia comes from. but if the CDC had to take me into custody (and they would have, had I been exposed to this virus) then so be it--better just me and not others. This is a fact--no one person is worth the danger that an epidemic could cause. Only the profoundly ignorant (who must have just been let out of school for the day) would even suggest people be put at risk over an individual's rights--we all have the right to life too. If a person has or is suspected of having a disease that compromises that right for many--then their right to freedom is trumped by the right to life--an imprisoned person can eventually be set free--a dead person cannot be brought back.

[tibu987]

This "very well educated" person is actually a very dumb and selfish individual. My guess is that he is a yuppie of the "me now" generation. To put hundreds of his co-passengers at risk of a potentially fatal disease is unconscionable.
I have absolutely no sympathy for him. He sounds like a gross person.

[toldyouso21]

Why is nobody talking about the facts here. Isn't anyone ashamed that our government would let a TB patient fly overseas and then refuse to bring him home. From my impression, they were going to leave him in a foreign hospital to die
Posted by emorylaw08 at 06:11 PM : May 30, 2007


Because the government must weigh the needs of any one person against the potential damage to many more. In other words: "the needs of the many must outweigh the needs of the few" Better for this one man to die in isolation than to subject thousands of people to his strain all over the world. One death is tragic, but one death which may be inevitable being allowed to morph into many due to a misguided bleeding heart and misguided duty to one man is monstrous.

[erasmus6]

emorylaw08

Tell me something, did you read the same article as the rest of us?

The government didn't LET him fly anywhere. The government didn't know at the time that he had TB. The doctor is the one that screwed up. And they didn't refuse to bring him home, they just told him he needed to isolate himself or turn himself over to the authorities and not to take a commercial flight back. I doubt that they would have left him there, but precautions needed to be taken.

Maybe you should read things a little more carefully before commenting.

[dan9111]

This is all a very good reason to distrust the CDC. It could be you who is next for forced abduction because of some imagined infection for which we are given zero evidence. Nothing, zip, not a single test tube or petri dish in sight.

Got to love these people. If this isn't blaming the victim, what is? Millions murdered in the Middle East, and we're worried about one guy? Billions wasted on boondoggle government scaremongering over terror and global warming. I'll take my chances with it, or I'll want a full refund please.

[toldyouso21]

Why is nobody talking about the facts here. Isn't anyone ashamed that our government would let a TB patient fly overseas and then refuse to bring him home. From my impression, they were going to leave him in a foreign hospital to die. Shouldn't we be concerned that our government will just leave Americans overseas. The man is still sputum negative, my father a TB clinician, says that there is basically a nil chance of infection. People are concerned about standing in line next to this man...after his entire immediate family, including children and elderly parents have proved negative for TB infection. This is being so overblown, the CDC is using sensational stories to try and increase their emergency response fundng.
Posted by emorylaw08 at 06:11 PM : May 30, 2007


where did you get the information that the man was sputum negative? It is the sputum which is cultured to isolate a particular strain. Without sputum that was full of bacteria, the CDC could never have cultured this out. You must have misunderstood or your dad is a quack. The only other way to diagnose TB which could be mistaken for Histoplasmosis due to the coin lesions is by X ray--but that only indicates past infection and scarring NOT the strain. So your dad is wrong or you two have information that has not yet made it to the media.

[erasmus6]

sorry for double post.

[emorylaw08]

Why is nobody talking about the facts here. Isn't anyone ashamed that our government would let a TB patient fly overseas and then refuse to bring him home. From my impression, they were going to leave him in a foreign hospital to die. Shouldn't we be concerned that our government will just leave Americans overseas. The man is still sputum negative, my father a TB clinician, says that there is basically a nil chance of infection. People are concerned about standing in line next to this man...after his entire immediate family, including children and elderly parents have proved negative for TB infection. This is being so overblown, the CDC is using sensational stories to try and increase their emergency response fundng.

[erasmus6]

"His initial doctor had no way to know for sure what the guy had..." posted by SusanHelit

The point is he is a doctor and he knew their could be a possibility that he could have the rare form of TB. So instead of ADVISING him not to travel he should have told him "under no circumstances should you travel".
They are both to blame along with the idiots that didn't take him into custody when they found out for sure.

[erasmus6]

"His initial doctor had no way to know for sure what the guy had..." posted by SusanHelit

The point is he is a doctor and he knew their could be a possibility that he could have the rare form of TB. So instead of ADVISING him not to travel he should have told him "under no circumstances should you travel".
They are both to blame along with the idiots that didn't take him into custody when they found out for sure.

[toldyouso21]

"Well... there is the issue that if the man was really on a no fly list---how did he get out of Rome? How did he fly in Prague? Who exactly is our Homeland Security coordinating with in this "global war on terror" from the looks of things, obviously NOT Canada, Prague or Rome. At each of these points the man was not stopped and detained--or did he sneak on board the planes also."

the CDC knew where the man was in Rome, they should have done the obvious and simple thing....NOT flown jet to get him.....NOT relied on him to do the right thing.....They should have informed the local police and had them and local health authorities escort him to a hospital. So Stupidity rules. I wonder if the idiots at the CDC are graduates from 4th tier schools just like the new US attorney picks

[toldyouso21]

George Bush has made many errors and his administration should be more on top of security issues, but there is no way that even the tightest homeland security can prevent one sociopath from bringing in his diseases. Place blame where blame is Due!
Posted by krenz4 at 04:32 PM : May 30, 2007


Well... there is the issue that if the man was really on a no fly list---how did he get out of Rome? How did he fly in Prague? Who exactly is our Homeland Security coordinating with in this "global war on terror" from the looks of things, obviously NOT Canada, Prague or Rome. At each of these points the man was not stopped and detained--or did he sneak on board the planes also.

This points to something larger than this incident because we are dealing with a type of terrorists that relishes dying for his cause--so if America finds out a highly contagious passenger intent on infecting others is planning to board a plane in Europe--who will stop him? Where? Right now--it looks like such a person would have a straight shot if they go to Prague fly to Canada then just rent a car to get to America.

[weareone2]

Yes, he acted improperly, but I can't see that he is any different from many, if not most people, certainly those in this country. It is normal to be overly optimistic about one's own well-being. This is made worse in this country by the cult of optimism. If you are in touch with reality, and don't believe you can do anything you want, just by thinking positively, you are put down as being pessimistic. Also, if you are concerned with the common good, you are (horrors) a liberal! This man's optimism and self-regard are surely a large part of his success. Even Pres. Bush acknowledges the problems of global warming caused by human actions, but how many people are taking even little actions on this problem, which is threatening the lives of very many.

[godofredo29]

%u201CIs the patient himself highly infectious? Fortunately, in this case, he%u2019s probably not,%u201D Gerberding said. %u201CBut the other piece is this bacteria is a very deadly bacteria. We just have to err on the side of caution.%u201D

I suspect that, in a week, we will find out that this man is just the victim of CDC ineptness.

[krenz4]

NYCkate,
How is this now Bush's fault? I'm not a fan of the man, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility. This actually has nothing to do with politics, it is the act of an ****** who didnt care about public safety. He should be charged accordingly. George Bush has made many errors and his administration should be more on top of security issues, but there is no way that even the tightest homeland security can prevent one sociopath from bringing in his diseases. Place blame where blame is Due!

[toldyouso21]

people should be aware that there are niw not only drug resistant TB , but also menningitis, syphillis, gonnorhea, leprosy and flesh eating (necrotizing) staph bacteria

The VD is beleved to have come out if the orient, and made its way here primrily due to tourists and unprotected ***. leprosy from Latin America and India, spread mostly by undocumented workers....the staph is usually found in gulf waters and has been traced to Mexico.

Illegal immigration isn't just about jobs or borders---legal immigrants are screened for health problems and cannot enter if they have a contagious or parasitical infection. Illegals bypass that safety net and the CDC and hospitals know this. The states with the highest incidence of these diseases are Texas, New Mexico, California, Arizona, Florida. This is not a coincidence--all are points of origin to Mexico or Central America.

[toldyouso21]

TB is on the rise again in the US and has been so for the past 8 years or so. One of the reasons is, that TB patients are no longer quarantined. They are sent home with a packet of pills and they are relied upon to take the pills and to later return for testing.

A lot of people with TB are immigrants and either do not understand the test requirements, or if they feel fine, do not understand or see the point in continuing the pills. This is not uncommon. Many Americans with bacterial infections seldom finish a full course of antibiotics--often stopping when they think they feel better and returning to the dr only if they start to feel bad again.

This means many people are walking around with low level infections and do not know this. Low level infections are perfect for bacteria to learn how to become resistant. If they are not killed off, they eventually mutate or develop a tolerance for an antibiotic. failing to take a full course is the same as vaccinating the bacteria. Many people then, can grow super bugs and do. The fact is, hospitals are under such pressure to only have acute patients that they just send people home knowing that many are contagious and will not finish the medicine. Whatever the reasons for not finishing are--they are compounded when people travel, or are on vacation--they forget, they just don't want to--they do not know that not taking the meds may be making a super bug and that later, the same meds will no longer work and they could die.

[toldyouso21]

"His initial doctor had no way to know for sure what the guy had - there was no reason to think it was the rarest form of TB out there, nor a reason to bump his test ahead of others. "Susan:

Drs. do not order or perform TB tests. They are required by law to send a sample and report all TB cases to the CDC. The time it took to test or the priority was in the hands of the CDC. Because they already are aware of the resistant strains (there is more than one) out there, every test is to be a priority. The CDC can put hundreds of samples on test at a time, when his came back positive, it is then challenged, it is during this phase that they would have known it was something more sinister--they then have to find the markers or challenge it again--at any point in all of that testing, they could have called the Dr and told him to order a quarantine. The Dr. may have presumed that his advice not to travel was all that was needed, but to be on the safe side, all persons with TB of any sort should not be allowed to fly prior to sucessful treatment--even if they are undergoing treatment, because a disruption in the meds could make a super bug (like this was) they should not be allowed to fly at all until the treatment is completed and determined to be successful. This is common sense and should have been policy.

[cathaleen]

Either this guy is a real idiot or a sociopath.
How could anyone be that stupid?

[toldyouso21]

Posted by SusanHelit at 03:36 PM : May 30, 2007

Not hundreds of lives--MILLIONS. With the advent of air travel, one host of a highly communicable and deadly disease could potentially infect every country within that travel circuit in 24 hours. The reason? Exponential exposure to a contagion. A man has a disease (air borne) he infects 3 or 4 (or more around him) around him and before they can be found, they are getting on planes and traveling and EACH is infecting more, who then in turn infect some more, and these "more" also infect some more, they travel and EACH infect some more..... One person can potentially infect or pass on a virulent strain and impact up to 100 people for every day they go undetected. it does not mean each person they impact will get ill, some may become carriers, others will have no effect, others may get ill--but EACH of the newly ill take up and repeat what the one man achieved. Of course that is worse case scenario--but entirely possible, without quarantine. So who, had an immune system, compromised enough, to get this man's illness? The maid? A store clerk? Somebody's baby he kissed? People on the plane? the airport reservationist? the guy who cleans out the rental car? How will the CDC track them all down? even one can start it all up again and will never be stopped until he is diagnosed.