Comments on: Israel, Hamas Defy Calls For Cease-Fire

Fighting Friday Amoung Heaviest In Two-Week Conflict; Death Toll Approximatedly 780

[donbl1]

rusure, I do not think the Israelies would be causing civilian casualties if the Hamas irregular fighters were not launching their attacks from civilian areas.

I have been in Israel during attacks and human bombers from Hamas. It is a very indiscriminate method of conducting war. The Israelies are responding in kind and, politically, they have no choice.

[rusure5]

Re: "The Germans and Japanese were forced to accept new leaders after WW2. Japan was as fanatical about their beliefs as much or more than the people in Gaza."

Posted by jowand

You seem to be offering that in support of the idea that the Palestinians will have an improved opinion of the Israelis, if the Israelis kill their leaders, and they have to select new ones.

That seems to ignore all of the valid reasons that I have listed, that the Palestinians might feel resentful and hostile towards the Israelis.

This result seems very unlikely.

[ajmarine111]

I must go now, and I must admit, it not been unpleasant chatting with you as long as you are not calling me a Muslim or an Islamist. Another time!

Posted by yourself5 at 10:50 PM : Jan 09, 2009



jowand is a good man yourself5.

Nite Marine.

[rusure5]

re: "rusure, I will give you another example of political need to survive using a hatred strategy: Iran and Achmedinejad."

Posted by donbl1

That is your opinion, and neither of these entities seem to have a lot to do with the current Israeli onslaught against the civilians in Gaza. Their behavior seems to appear pretty hateful, not to mention criminal, to most people around the world.

Anyway, as I mentioned before, I think that the occupation, the settlers, the Israeli use of Human Shields, the Israeli abuse and imprisonment of so many Palestinians without charge, the land-grabbing Israeli wall, the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza, and the Israeli targeting and killing of civilians- it seems like these are among the main reasons that the Palestinians don''t like Israel, rather than anything that Hamas, or Iran, or Ahmadinejad is saying or doing.

No Christian with any integrity, for example, could ever look the other way while the Israelis are targeting and killing civilian women and children. This is in direct violation of the teachings of Christ, under and circumstances.

I''m not religious, but a lot of religious people seem to be risking eternal damnation for supporting or excusing such atrocities and crimes.

[jowand]

So I can believe the UN and you can believe ABC

Posted by yourself5 at 10:43 PM : Jan 09, 2009

Try having a difference of opinion in Gaza with Hamas.

[jowand]

"The Germans and Japanese did after WW2."

Posted by jowand

That is a nonsensical claim. The modern State of Israel was not even established until after WWII.

Posted by rusure5 at 10:42 PM : Jan 09, 2009

The Germans and Japanese were forced to accept new leaders after WW2. Japan was as fanatical about their beliefs as much or more than the people in Gaza.

[jowand]

Specifi
cally, what did I say that you contend is not true?

Posted by yourself5 at 10:40 PM : Jan 09, 2009

Ethnic groups and spying

[jowand]

To be honest, I have no idea what I would have done, do you. There is one thing I am certain of though, I never would have made general. And it is, in my mind, impossible to believe that those in command positions, such as officers, were unaware of what was going on in the concentration camps. After all, there was no effort to keep them secret.

Posted by yourself5 at 10:38 PM : Jan 09, 2009

Jew were not operating gas chamber or conecentraton camps. Not all the German military were Nazi fanatics. Irwin Rommel a Field Marshall wasn''t a fanatic Nazi, he tried to get rid of Hitler. It easy for us to sit here and critisize people in situations like Jews were in at Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Treblinka and Auswitze, but unless you have been in these circumstance talk is just talk.

[donbl1]

rusure, I will give you another example of political need to survive using a hatred strategy: Iran and Achmedinejad.

Old Achy had a deteriorating economy and needed an enemy to focus people away from the problems at home. That enemy is America.

Finally, the Mullahs have reigned him in and the rhetoric has declined. The less than $50/bl for oil is bankrupting the country as they need $90/bl to survive.

[rusure5]

Re: "Do you really think that the Palestinians will change their opinion of Israel, if they are forced to select new leaders?"

Posted by rusure5 at 10:28 PM : Jan 09, 2009

"The Germans and Japanese did after WW2."

Posted by jowand

That is a nonsensical claim. The modern State of Israel was not even established until after WWII.

[rusure5]

Re: "rusure, being democratically elected does not remove hatred nor the political need to be reelected."

Posted by donbl1

Mr. Bush proved that to be true, except for the democratically elected part.

RE: "Hamas is a political party based on hatred."

Why is that your business?

Re: "They politically survive only through the rabble rousing hatred of Israel."

That looks like a pretty silly allegation. I think that the occupation, the settlers, the Israeli use of Human Shields, the Israeli abuse and imprisonment of so many Palestinians without charge, the land-grabbing Israeli wall, the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza, and the Israeli targeting and killing of civilians- it seems like these are among the main reasons that the Palestinians don''t like Israel, rather than anything that Hamas is saying or doing.

[jowand]

An investigation by the UN completely refuted that charge.

Posted by yourself5 at 10:34 PM : Jan 09, 2009

I would rather believe ABC news they talked with locals right after it happened. As for the UN you don''t know who is putting their stuff out.

[jowand]

As far as I know, no such claim against the Clintons has ever been verified. In fact, this is the first I have ever heard of it. As to the second issue, I mention the Israeli spies because so many on this site are lauding the Israeli as though they were American patriots. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, Jews in America have constituted the largest of ANY ethnic group of spies in the US.

Posted by yourself5 at 10:31 PM : Jan 09, 2009

That''s not true, you were told that earlier yet you continue to post this made up stuff.

[ajmarine111]

As far as I know, no such claim against the Clintons has ever been verified. In fact, this is the first I have ever heard of it.


Posted by yourself5 at 10:31 PM : Jan 09, 2009



I don''t know how true it is yourself, but this is one article.




There is a growing number of accusers saying President Clinton betrayed this country when he allowed massive transfers of American secrets to the Chinese in exhange for illegal contributions to his re-election campaign.
It was through Bill Clinton''s efforts that the Chinese launched American communications satellites and it was his efforts that made it possible for the Chinese to improve their guidance systems of its rockets and long-range nuclear missles. Until recently, China''s space program was largely a failure ... that was until May 2, 1998 when they successfully launched a Chinese Long March 2C rocket carrying two U.S. satellites into space. Their success was made possible by technical assistance from the United States. It should be noted that Bernard Schwartz, the chairman of Loral Space and Communications, one of the firms that sold satellites to the Chinese, was the Democratic Party''s largest contributor in 1996. (cited in "Who sold Red China our ICBM secrets?," Keith Wilkerson, Christian Crusade, June 1998).



http://www.clintonmemoriallibrary.com/clint_foreign.html

[jowand]

Do you really think that the Palestinians will change their opinion of Israel, if they are forced to select new leaders?

Posted by rusure5 at 10:28 PM : Jan 09, 2009

The Germans and Japanese did after WW2.

[wdh3007]

Hamas cannot except Israel as a state inpart because of its religious convictions. Israel cannot except Hamas becasue of its ties to terrorism and Jihad. For Hamas they see it as infidels may not, anywhere in the Middle East be in power. The problem with this is Israel doesn''t consider themselves the infidels and many Jews religiously believe the State of Israel especially Jerusulem was chosen by god to be the theirs. Two different religions, two different ideas, two different people one same old problem.

[jowand]

But I can think of nothing comparable in history where there were such a large number (over 12,000) of those who would, not only serve in a military that was actively exterminating their own people but did so with so much enthusiasm. I understand the desire for self-preservation; I do not understand the fact that some were so good at this that they reached the rank of general.

Posted by yourself5 at 10:27 PM : Jan 09, 2009

You said the number was 1200, I asked you what would you have done under the same circumstances please answer. Jews were not operating the gas chambers.

[donbl1]

rusure, being democratically elected does not remove hatred nor the political need to be reelected.

Hamas is a political party based on hatred. They politically survive only through the rabble rousing hatred of Israel.

Many political parties in the world survive in power through this strategy.

[rusure5]

RE: "Nov 5th 2008
A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory."

"...yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm."

Posted by jowand

That is commendable that Hamas sought an atmosphere of calm, after the Israelis violated the cease-fire agreement.

Of only the Israelis would behave as responsibly in matters like this.

[jowand]

Let me understand; are you saying when the IDF drops bombs on a school that results in the deaths of 42 women and children, they are not attacking women and children? In my mind, when you drop bombs in that kind of situation you know, or should know, that women and children are going to be killed.

Posted by yourself5 at 10:21 PM : Jan 09, 2009

That incident you speak of, Hamas was using the school area to fire mortars at the Israeli military. Israel shelled it.