Comments on: NY Times: Bush OK'd Global Secret Raids
Rumsfeld Penned Order Allowing Ground Forces To Invade Any Country To Go After Al Qaeda
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- If you had a gun and could kill Bin Laden while on vacation in Pakistan, wold you pull the trigger or would you call the Police and risk him escaping or better yet would you call the Police f you thought they would let him go?
Posted by CPelzar at 12:37 PM : Nov 10, 2008
I used to be an MP. I would treat OBL like any other criminal suspect.
I would say, "You are under arrest, don''''t move or I will kill you."
And, if he moved, I would kill him.
But, if he obeyed my commands, I would take him into custody. In no case would I sit on top of a building (in a tree, etc.) and shoot him if he made an appearance.
But, then again, I support the US Constitution & rule of law.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:42 PM : Nov 10, 2008
You would do if you believed the Police were actually supporting him and would let him go? - Reply to this comment
- TO: CPelzar at 12:28 PM : Nov 10, 2008
The president cannot (legally) alter the US Constitution with an executive order.
The president does not have the legal authority to murder people regardless what you call it. Assassination is murder.
George Bush is a murderer.
It''''s just that simple.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:39 PM : Nov 10, 2008
All Presidents under your definition include:
Bill Clinton - Kosovo / Afghanistan and Sudan
Ronald Reagan - Grenada
Jimmy Carter - Iran Hostages rescue attempt
John F. Kennedy - Bay Of Pigs / Vietnam
Lyndon Baines Johnson - Vietnam
All were murderers. - Reply to this comment
- A new national poll suggests that President Bush is the most unpopular president since approval ratings were first created more than six decades ago. Seventy-six percent of those questioned disapprove of how Bush is handling his job. "Bush is now more unpopular than Richard Nixon was when he resigned from office during Watergate with a 66 percent disapproval rating,"
- Reply to this comment
- I don''''t hate anyone. Criminals should be brought to justice, but engaging in crimes to accomplish that goal is not acceptable.
The US way overreacted to the events of 9/11/01 and we will be paying dearly for those crimes (on all sides) for years to come.
The Bush administration is worse than al qaida.
Religion seems to be the foundation for all these various extreme actions. Maybe we should wage war on religion since religious exremists (Jews, Chrisians, Muslims) seem to all want to die or murder other people.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:33 PM : Nov 10, 2008
If you had a gun and could kill Bin Laden while on vacation in Pakistan, wold you pull the trigger or would you call the Police and risk him escaping or better yet would you call the Police f you thought they would let him go? - Reply to this comment
- The president has the authority to murder Canadians since they are all on welfare & are drug addicts.
:-)
The 29th (same as Rahm Emanuel) but you don''''t need to give me anything or a surprise party or anything. . .
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:18 PM : Nov 10, 2008
Ya know, I just can''t believe how mean you are to me sometimes.
---
I will just sing Happy Birthday to you.
And it''s probably good that you can''t hear me.:) - Reply to this comment
- The relevant law is Executive Order 12333, most specifically Part 2, Section 11: "2.11 Prohibition on Assassination. No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination." You have to admit, that''s pretty clear.
Thing is, this is merely an executive order, ie something the president made up on his own accord. It is not part of the US Constitution, nor was it even a law passed by Congress.
Therefore, President Bush could and should perfectly well simply rescind that provision what ties our hands behind our backs of his own accord with another executive order.
Plus, even if we don''t actually use it, the hanging possibility of assassination COULD conceivably happen to be just the thing to make Kim Jong Il or some Iranian mullahs become more open to reasonable negotiation. OK, so maybe they could calculate that we won''t start a wholesale war, but the possibility of US coming after them personally might get their attention. - Reply to this comment
- I am all for us defending ourselves against terrorists, but the one question that I have been asking myself since I personally witnessed the towers collaps is, why? So, I decided to do some research and I read some books on the subject. There''s one I read is called: The Limits of Power by Andrew Bacevich. I suggest everyone read this book and educate yourselves on the underhanded operations or "missions" our government carried out in hopes of controlling the Middle East for its oil. Basically, so we could continue our current lifestyle of consumption and waste. If we want to rid ourselves of all these terrorists and nations that don''''t like us, the best thing we could do is to get off our dependence on their oil. I don''t want to sound elitest at all, but everyone must find out for themselves and do some research from credible sources. Definately not from the media alone. It''s easy to sit there and complain, but if you love your country as much as you say you do, then inform yourselves of what our government has been doing behind our backs. Then you''ll get a clear picture of why we''re in the mess that we''re currently in.
- Reply to this comment
- I contend that if they are receiving safe haven are conducting combat aggression against the US under state sponsorship.
Posted by Cpelzar at 12:05 PM : Nov 10, 2008
By that definition, Turkey and Iran have the legal authority to murder Americans since we are harboring Kurdish & other terrorists in Iraq so they can murder Turks & Iranians.
Based on your definition, al qaida or anyone else in the Middle East is legally justified when they murder Americans or Israelis, or anyone who supports us.
You just made the case that al qaida is not a terrorist group, they are operating under the same legal (?) principles as the US or Israel.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:14 PM : Nov 10, 2008
One mans Terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. I choose to pick them from our perspective not the Islamic Terrorists perspective. - Reply to this comment
- I contend that if they are receiving safe haven are conducting combat aggression against the US under state sponsorship.
Posted by Cpelzar at 12:05 PM : Nov 10, 2008
By that definition, Turkey and Iran have the legal authority to murder Americans since we are harboring Kurdish & other terrorists in Iraq so they can murder Turks & Iranians.
Based on your definition, al qaida or anyone else in the Middle East is legally justified when they murder Americans or Israelis, or anyone who supports us.
You just made the case that al qaida is not a terrorist group, they are operating under the same legal (?) principles as the US or Israel.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:14 PM : Nov 10, 2008
One mans Terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. I choose to pick them from our perspective not the Islamic Terrorists perspective. - Reply to this comment
- Do you believe the president has the legal authority to murder you? If not, why not?
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:07 PM : Nov 10, 2008
No. Brain is still fuzzy, I''ll let you know later.:)
So what day is your birthday? - Reply to this comment
- I am all for us defending ourselves against terrorists, but the one question that I have been asking myself since I personally witnessed the towers collaps is, why? So, I decided to do some research and I read some books on the subject. The one I read is called: The Limits of Power by Andrew Bacevich. I suggest everyone read this book and educate yourselves on the underhanded operations or "missions" our government carried out in hopes of controlling the Middle East for its oil. Basically, so we could continue our current lifestyle of consumption and waste. If we want to rid ourselves of all these terrorists and nations that don''t like us, the best thing we could do to to get off our dependence on their oil. I don''t want to sound elitest at all, but everyone must find out for themselves and do some research from credible sources. Definately not from the media alone. It''s easy to sit there and complain, but if you love your country as much as you say you do, then inform yourselves of what our government has been doing behind our backs. Then you''ll get a clear picture of why we''re in the mess that we''re currently in.
- Reply to this comment
- Terrorists target civilians. They do so because they know we are weak and will withdraw eventually if they just keep up the pressure.
They are according to the posters on this board succeeding.. - Reply to this comment
- I do not subscribe to your narrow definition of criminality of individuals who attack us and hide in terrorist sponsored states under the "sovereignty" argument.
Posted by Cpelzar at 11:53 AM : Nov 10, 2008
It is not "my definition."
It is the US Constitution''''s definition.
Terrorism committed by individuals not acting under state sponsorship is a crime, same as any other crime.
And, ALL suspected criminals have the right to a trial.
So sayeth the US Constitution.
In no case does the president have the legal authority to order people''''s executions. If he has that authority, he has the authority to order YOU executed.
You may agree that the president can murder you and your family, friends & neighbors with impunity, but I STRONGLY disagree.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:02 PM : Nov 10, 2008
I contend that if they are receiving safe haven are conducting combat aggression against the US under state sponsorship. - Reply to this comment
- What is mostly wrong with the US is that we have tens of millions of people who seem to believe the president is a king or ruler of the world.
He is not, he is accountable for his crimes same as a crack dealer.
Except to Americans who do not seem to support the US Constitution or rule of law.
All three Abramic religions are equally dangerous. Jewish, Christian & Muslim extremists are little different. Except Jewish & Christian extremists use the power of the state to commit their murders and terrorism.
Posted by tuckerndfw
Good post. I hate the terrorists and suicide bombers as much as anyone. But one should recognize that they are using the only weapons they have, and are fighting an asymmetrical campaign. Religion does seem to be the basis for much of the fighting. - Reply to this comment
- And, you conservative morons wanted us to give Bush a de facto third term? These secret wars need to end. This treachery needs to end. All the lies and secret meetings need to end, and all secret prisons around the globe need to be closed down and the pow''''s returned home immediately. You fools! You have made this country the most hated nation across the globe.
Posted by tj217 at 12:01 PM : Nov 10, 2008
Yeh, lets return the terrorists we have in captivity so they can kill US troops and more Americans around the world.
Good idea. - Reply to this comment
- exactly, i have been saying that for years....political correctness will hurt this country more than anything or anyone else....basically, you arent allowed to say what is wrong with this country due to political correctness, thus the problems will never be addressed
Posted by jamesm12341 at 11:53 AM : Nov 10, 2008
What is mostly wrong with the US is that we have tens of millions of people who seem to believe the president is a king or ruler of the world.
He is not, he is accountable for his crimes same as a crack dealer.
Except to Americans who do not seem to support the US Constitution or rule of law.
All three Abramic religions are equally dangerous. Jewish, Christian & Muslim extremists are little different. Except Jewish & Christian extremists use the power of the state to commit their murders and terrorism.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 11:58 AM : Nov 10, 2008
Wrong Muslims do so "independent" of the state that sponsors and helps fund them and then hide behind it based on your argument of "Sovereignty"
Those days were ended by Bill Clinton and continued by George Bush and I am in support of them. The Sovereignty argument is a straw man not based on the reality of the situation. - Reply to this comment
- It''''s not "my definition." ALL criminal suspects are entitled to a trial by a jury of their peers, so sayeth the US Constitution.
Regardless who the president is.
Terrorism committed by individuals not under state sponsorship is a crime. It is not an act of war.
Executing criminal suspects, regardless where they are, without trials is murder.
Regardless who does it.
Posted by tuckerndfw at 11:48 AM : Nov 10, 2008
I do not subscribe to your narrow definition of criminality of individuals who attack us and hide in terrorist sponsored states under the "sovereignty" argument. - Reply to this comment
- Is there no end to what this weasel will do or has done? How could the American vote him into office 2X?
Oh, I forgot. His friends on the Supreme Court made him the president in 2000 and he managed to steal the election in 2004. I hope that all of you who voted for him are happy that he has destroyed this country and made us hated around the world. Hopefully, Obama can undo some of the damage and there is a lot of damage to undo. - Reply to this comment
- TO: cbs_tom at 11:38 AM : Nov 10, 2008
A declaration of war provides the legal basis (and rules) for entering other nations and conducting hostile acts.
Congress has not declared war since the US entered into WW II.
The illegal invasions of Afghanistan & Iraq provide no legal basis for the president ordering people murdered at his own discretion.
If the president has the legal authority to order people murdered, he has the authority to order you murdered.
Do you think the president has the legal authority to murder you? If not, why not? What''''s stopping him?
Posted by tuckerndfw at 11:44 AM : Nov 10, 2008
The war in Kosovo was never approved by the U.N. or the U.S. Congress, and in fact violated the War Powers Act. A conservative estimate is that 6,000 were killed by U.S. and NATO bombs.
Did you call for Clinton being a murderer as well? I don;t think so. - Reply to this comment
- I as most Americans are in favor of killing people who would kill us before they get a chance.
No attacks since 911, undeniable execution of keeping the terrorists heads down because we can as they have demonstrated attack anywhere and at anytime.
"Countries that persistently host terrorists have no right to be safe havens."
Bill Clinton, 1998 - Reply to this comment
