Comments on: Dozens Killed In Escalating Gaza Attacks
Exiled Hamas Leader Calls Israel's Attacks In Which Civilians Are Killed "The Real Holocaust"
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- realpatriot1 wrote: Nonviolent civil disobedience prevailed avery time. The Palestinians don''''t need an Arafat or an Abinihjad, they need their own Ghandi.
Who would immediately become the target of an Israeli extra-judicial assassination. - Reply to this comment
- Sarge,
Did Nelson Mandela lead South Africa to freedom from apartheid with guns or with the moral force of courage and nonviolent civil disobedience?
When in all of history has a poorly armed minority gained freedom from oppression by violence?
Posted by realpatriot1 at 09:52 AM : Mar 02, 2008
While Mandela espoused non-violence, it was world pressure and the ANC which brought about an end to the Afrikaners apartheid. - Reply to this comment
- And, Singinrick, it looks like the Israelites originally stole it originally from the Caananites. Long time land thieves.
- Reply to this comment
- Sarge,
Did Nelson Mandela lead South Africa to freedom from apartheid with guns or with the moral force of courage and nonviolent civil disobedience?
When in all of history has a poorly armed minority gained freedom from oppression by violence? - Reply to this comment
- Posted by realpatriot1 at 09:48 AM : Mar 02, 2008
I enjoy you posts...always have.
But to think that the Palestinians will "accept" apartheid meekly as a means to ending it is a perspective not based in reason, in my view. - Reply to this comment
- Oh, by the way, Singinrick, the Caananites, Egypt, the Sea People, Israel, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Macedonia, Italy, AND Saudi Arabia ruled the Holy Lands in 635, then Turkey, the Crusaders, then the Marmadukes, then the Ottoman Turks, then England.
So as has been seen, at least 11 modern nations are in position to present claims to the Holy Land. No attempt is made here to judge these claims. However, it is noted that the two most prominent claimants in the modern day have different ideas as to whether ancient claims or modern claims have the higher priority.
So, the moral of this story is. If you''re living on the property on this day, it''s yours until you cede it to someone else, or they take it from you.
Old claims just don''t count. - Reply to this comment
- formerusmcsgt,
There are Israelis who don''t want peace but most do. The same is true of the Palestinians.
The problem is how to marginalize those who don''t want peace and keep them from disrupting the peace process.
Israel has a choice to make in the very near future. The Arab population of Israel itself is growing so rapidly that Israel will soon become another majority Arab country. They have to make peace with the Arabs!
Singinrick''s vision of an Israel controlled by Jews is being negated by demographics and can only be negated by an actual act of God, forced sterilization, sending Arabs into exile by the millions, or by accomodation and living in peace with justice for all.
Jimmy Carter was roundly criticized for pointing this out but was redeemed by none other than the Prime Minister of Israel himself who voiced the same thoughts last fall. - Reply to this comment
- Posted by realpatriot1 at 09:37 AM : Mar 02, 2008
The Palestinians have realized that submitting to apartheid will never acheive an end to it.
They will have to fight for their freedom, Israel will never "grant" it to them. - Reply to this comment
- closethippy/formersarge,
I don''t disagree that any of what you mentioned is an injustice but there is an alternative to endless attack and counter attack.
The British didn''t leave India because of guerilla attacks; they had the military superiority to defeat that. They left because Ghandi led a campaign of non voilent civil disobedience that gained the attention of the world to the frustration of the powers in London.
When the Nazi Army invaded Russia they weren''t defeated by the inferior Russian forces, they were left to freeze to death in the russian winter when the citizens of Moscow left their homes and burned them on the way out of town.
When Martin Luther King led a campaign of nonviolent
civil disobedience in this country the powers aligned against them responded with church bombings, attack dogs, water cannons, lynchings, roadside killings,etc.
Nonviolent civil disobedience prevailed avery time.
The Palestinians don''t need an Arafat or an Abinihjad, they need their own Ghandi. - Reply to this comment
- When the Afrikaners practiced their apartheid against the South Africans, the U.S. expressed outrage, cut business dealings with the Afrikaners, and sought world agreement to do the same. And rightly so.
What is disgraceful is that, as long as the victims of apartheid are Palestinian, most Americans have no problem with apartheid...... - Reply to this comment
Gaza is under siege and being strangled to death. And to expect Palestinians there, and in the West Bank, to do nothing about it is insane.
Posted by closethippy1 at 09:23 AM : Mar 02, 2008
Israel is under siege and to expect them to do nothing is insane.
Of course it is.
Posted by formrusmcsgt at 09:25 AM : Mar 02, 2008- Reply to this comment
- While Israel is not taking all the steps in that regard that I would like them to take Hamas is totally committed to war and destruction of the peace process at all costs to themselves and their people.
Posted by realpatriot1 at 09:23 AM : Mar 02, 2008
In their stead, I would do exactly the same.
Israel does not want peace...it wants the status quo ad infinitim.
I would not lay down for perpetual occupation either. - Reply to this comment
- Gaza is under siege and being strangled to death. And to expect Palestinians there, and in the West Bank, to do nothing about it is insane.
Posted by closethippy1 at 09:23 AM : Mar 02, 2008
Of course it is. - Reply to this comment
- This is what Hamas is saying about its actions against Israel: To have Israel control the borders, the airspace and the coast of Gaza, and decide who and what can enter and leave Gaza, and then do nothing about it is to make it look as it is legitimate for the Israelis to do all that.
Remember that Israel''s actions are happening in the context of a 40+ military occupation of the area.
Yes, Hamas can write articles and hold protests and do interviews and travel the world over to argue their case and plead and beg and all that.
But who''s listening? Who''s doing anything about it? 40 long years and nothing, nothing, has been done to ease the Palestinians'' situation.
In fact, it just keeps getting worse with more land confiscation, more Jewish settlers transfered to this lands, more Only Jewish freeways for Jewish settlers to travel on them, more checkpoints, more Palestinians being hunted down and killed without the decency of a court trial, etc.
And all this in the West Bank where not a single rocket has been fired from.
Gaza is under siege and being strangled to death. And to expect Palestinians there, and in the West Bank, to do nothing about it is insane.
One way or another they have to let the world know, at least let Israel know, that they''re not happy with not having the same rights everyone else in the world has.
They really don''t have much of a choice but to attack Israel and let them know that 40 of occupation has to come to an end somehow, sometime. - Reply to this comment
- Time: After the Election
Winner Barack Hussein Obama 44th President of the United States! Amazing!
Jesse Louis Jackson Vice President! Who else!
His Cabinet:
Louis Farrakhan, a known anti-Semite, secretary of defense.
Al" Sharpton Jr. National Security Adviser
Oj. Simpson as Secretary of Health
Mike Tyson Post not realized as yet!
Jeremiah Wright Homeland security:
Vision for America?
white America" had the 9/11 attacks coming, while calling for business "divestment from Israel," a "racist" state along with America.
Day 2
Executive Order 70896 is signed
(commits all power to President)
We will be blessed!
Posted by JoanDavis2 at 08:39 AM : Mar 02, 2008
I saw it to. What should we do? - Reply to this comment
- former Sarge,
I don''t think a scorecard of casualities is a true measure of cause and effect. Neither side is without blood on their hands and, as you know better thhan I, that''s the nature of warfare.
What''s more important is who, if anyone, is taking actions that will promote peace. While Israel is not taking all the steps in that regard that I would like them to take Hamas is totally committed to war and destruction of the peace process at all costs to themselves and their people.
Israel doesn''t get the same attention from the U.N. because Israel has violated U.N. resolutions 338, 446, 452,465, and to fully implement resolution 242 or its own agreements made at Camp David and its own response to The Bush administration''s roadmap for peace.
All parties in the Mideast could do more for peace. Abbas has the most difficult job since he has no control over what Hamas is doing in Gaza. Palestinians who want out of Gaza can''t even get out. - Reply to this comment
- Posted by ajayvee at 09:14 AM : Mar 02, 2008
Agreed. - Reply to this comment
- The most historically reliable source for the proper ownership of that land and who''''s descendants have always been theree is the BIBLE.
And the Bible gives the JEWS the right to ISrael, and even the SECULAR historical and archaeological evidence agrees.
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Posted by singinrick at 09:10 AM : Mar 02, 2008
I guess the Bible doesn''t rule the world anymore, Singinrick...actually I don''t ever remember it ruling the world. It''s a book of history. - Reply to this comment
- formrusmcsgt wrote: Maybe because of the following?
2007 death toll: 337 Palestinians, 13 Israelis.
Yes, but the 337 are goyim so to the majority of American (and British, for that matter) minds they do not count as casualties; just collateral damage. - Reply to this comment
- The most historically reliable source for the proper ownership of that land and who''''s descendants have always been theree is the BIBLE.
Posted by singinrick at 09:10 AM : Mar 02, 2008
A book that claims the planet is only 6,000 years old is RELIABLE?
Hilarious! - Reply to this comment
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