Comments on: Danish Papers Reprint Muhammad Cartoon

To "Unambiguously Back" Freedom; Images Of Prophet Sparked Mass Outcry 2 Years Ago

[dbsavoy-2009]

oldarmyman said: "If I thought my way of thinking was the only way, or if there is only ''''one way'''' to receive God''''s forgiveness and grace, I would crawl in a hole and pray for my end to come."

But also said: "If your religious or political beliefs bring you to hate others or alienate those not of your reasoning, that my friend goes against Gods word".

Only in a spirit of debate here, not attack, I see these statements as contradictory. I''m not merely bantering idly if I suggest that one''s conception of God''s word -- or for that matter your God''s explicit command in itself -- may implictly or explicity endorse hatred of, or alienation from, the nonbeliever. This is evident in religion. I think many are too quick to say that bad actions are a result of bad interpretation of God''s will. If your talking about the Abrahamic god''s will, the books are pretty forkin'' stern about infidels and other ne''er-do-wells such as the arse bandits that God made many of us.

[jncc1701]

What is this fascination with ideas born in the Dark Ages? Can''t you guys deal with life like adults without needed to run to some Zeus/God/Santa character?

The Danish papers were right to reprint the cartoons, human civilization flourished only when we figured out that religion in the public sphere only debased both faith and politics.
There is no historical evidence to the contrary, religion in politics equal loss of freedom.

David Hume said it best "In all ages of the world, priests have been enemies of liberty."

[ajmarine1]

Is civility less important than truth?

Posted by dbsavoy at 09:18 PM : Feb 13, 2008

I would think it would depend on the situation and who you were talking to.

[oldarmyman-2009]

I do not think I have a ''New Age'' moral relativism ideal. If I thought my way of thinking was the only way, or if there is only ''one way'' to receive God''s forgiveness and grace, I would crawl in a hole and pray for my end to come. But since I don''t, I''ll keep my heart and ears open, without preying on others and leading them to believe that I have the only answer. I will answer to God some day on my own behalf for my humanity and sin. In the mean time, I will not go out of my way, and lower myself to the level of an animal without morals or respect for all human beings. If your religious or political beliefs bring you to hate others or alienate those not of your reasoning, that my friend goes against Gods word. Of course this depends on whos word you believe. The very reason religion is very dangerous in the wrong hands. It is humanities recipe for domination over each other. Why do you think our forefathers bothered to separate Church and State? Christians, they were, knowing full well that humans cannot be trusted with such power alone. Only God has that power, wherever, or however you may find him. I have fought against, and will continue to fight those who seek to harm others in the name of any particular faith or facist agendas.

[mbievtea]

Of course, the "moderate" Muslim Imam still condemns the action ... hey, guess what Imam ... this is just another way to protest! Open a dialogue of what? What''s to discuss ... you have an Islamic figure that is Muhammed with a bomb as a turbin, representing the times. That''s just a representation of fact!!!

[dbsavoy-2009]

Yeah, verse 9.3 was one of the ones that Grym One quoted and started that last dustup.

So here''s a question. I really, honestly wonder on this one. Is civility less important than truth? Think of that old buddhist or hindu or muslim or something saying about the three gates that all speech should pass through, namely:

Is it true?
Is it kind?
Is it necessary?

[ajmarine1]

But what to think when you put it in even the slightest context, such as the preceding and following verses (9.4, 9.6):

Posted by dbsavoy at 09:04 PM : Feb 13, 2008



The same can be said if you throw in 9.3.



[9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

[dbsavoy-2009]

barbazm said: "Bye bye I would not participate in a debate where people will call me liar. I only wish if people were more civil here."

Awwww. Get bent, bully boy.

The guy was lying, or ignorant. I called him a liar or ignoramus. How "civil" is it to try to bull your way through someone''s valid points? Civility is a cornerstone of civilization. Courtesy is a byword of life. But truth is the fountain of all that''s worth being alive for.

I guess this Interweb Forum thing is easier than I thought.

[dbsavoy-2009]

AJMarine: Yes, this verse is famous. But what to think when you put it in even the slightest context, such as the preceding and following verses (9.4, 9.6):


[9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).

[9:5] Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

[babarzm]

Bye bye I would not participate in a debate where people will call me liar. I only wish if people were more civil here.