Comments on: 5,960 Civilians Killed In Mogadishu In '07

Banned Rights Group Says Nearly 8,000 Wounded, Over 700,000 Displaced From Somalia Capital

[whatithink-2009]

Free trade is what helps countries prosper. There is a reason why trade rules have been created where raw material out of Africa has very low tariffs but finished goods out of Africa are imposed huge tariffs. There is a reason why the African farmer gets two cents on that $5 coffee you get at Starbucks.

[keithle1]

Africa. Never a dull moment. Always something going on. Usually bad.

$660 billion has been pumped into Africa over the years. What does the rest of the world have to show for it? Not much if anything.

Maybe USA should stay out of Africa. Let them deal with everything themselves. Unless of course the country in Africa has oil or something we need for strategic purposes.

[whatithink-2009]

Berlin Conference of 1884-1885 to Divide Africa

"The Berlin Conference was Africa''s undoing in more ways than one. The colonial powers superimposed their domains on the African continent. By the time independence returned to Africa in 1950, the realm had acquired a legacy of political fragmentation that could neither be eliminated nor made to operate satisfactorily."

[whatithink-2009]

nameverify,

Get real. The British left neither of those places in the same way they left most of Africa. In fact, I remember the Hong Kong handover to China. It was well orchestrated and the intent was not to leave it plundered. In fact much effort has been made even with the U.S. not to plunder East Asia, hence the Korean war and the Vietnam conflict. South Korea has had preferred trading status with the U.S. for decades.

[whatithink-2009]

runningralph,

You miss a vital point. Anyone can be a terrorist. We are not immune. Fighting terrorism is fighting a losing battle. In fact, in our quest to fight terrorism, we create it.

[whatithink-2009]

I Didn''t Do It for You: How the World Betrayed a Small African Nation by Michela Wrong

Darwin''s Nightmare - documentary - 2007

Cry Sea - documentary - 2007

[runningralph]

whatithink,
Like i said before, you must have some inside info. What I do know is that the US didn''t forgive Japan for Pearl Harbor, we DEFEATED them. Nobody in the US is trying to punish Somalia or get revenge on Somalia. However you are correct about the grudge. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! You are also correct in that not all Somalis were involved in the attacks against US forces. It was widespread though, and the celebration at the sight of our dead soldier showed that hatred of the US runs deep in the populace. That hatred stems from Americans being infidels.
I wasn''t aware the OBL had anything to do with events in Somalia. I didn''t hear about him until 9/11.
But he is cut from the same cloth. You are also correct that we never said we hate all Iraqis. Neither did we say we hate all Somalis. Who is laughing at children dying? Where did that come from?
Is that some more of your inside info? And America is mostly Christian, but not all. We have separation of religion and government over here. Remember that? We are a great nation, and most of us claim to be Christian.
What happened in Somalia did NOT happen because of US policy there. It happened DESPITE US policy. Now the only policy we have is to fight terrorism. That policy goes all over not just in Somalia. The US has not gotten involved in the chaos, so far it has stayed out of the chaos. As far as internal politics in Somalia, we have no solutions.

[whatithink-2009]

Do you even realize fishing makes up a large amount of work in Western African countries and that European shipping boats have been going into Western African waters and stealing fish? Did you know that subsidies that we are giving to farmers in this country are hurting African farmers? Have you heard of trade agreements? Do you know that most African nations are excluded from these trade agreements and the trade agreements are what has helped countries like China and India to get out of their poverty? Did you know trade rules have made it almost impossible for African suppliers to sell finished goods outside of Africa other than raw material that is sold well below finished goods value because they''ve been excluded from trade agreements?

Do you know anything?

[whatithink-2009]

nameverify,

There is nothing wrong with African cultures. There is something wrong with you. East Asian countries did not have the same level of plunder as African countries and not for as long. Japan closed itself off to the world for a reason. What we even call an African country was not created by Africans, but Europeans.

Have you heard of the Marshal Plan? Do you know how much investment went into Europe and Japan after the war? Africa has been saddled with debt. Most African countries have to give most of their money to Western countries than they have to fund education or infrastructure. Someone made an analysis once and found out that for every aid dollar that goes to many African country four times the amount is given back to Western countries in the form of debt repayments.

[denn034]

Those Islamic insurgents want total control so, unless the government surrenders then this''ll continue. One might be able to broker a ceasefire with a power sharing arrangement of some sort though.

[whatithink-2009]

kailumego1,

I wish the only problem with this topic was my sentence structure. People are dying thanks to some decision we made in the last year and all people can talk about is the early 1990s and my sentence structure. This is why the world is not improving. We get stuck on the unimportant at the expense of the important.

[whatithink-2009]

runningralph,

What I am saying is that many countries have done far, far worse to our troops than what happened in Somalia. We have gotten over it. Do we bring up Pearl Harbor every time someone mentions Japan? For some reason we feel a need to forever punish this country, seeking revenge and holding a grudge. You do know that not all Somalis were involved in this incident and much of what happened was tied to OBL? If I remember correct there was an incident in Fallujah where some of our citizens were hanging, burning from the top of a bridge. However, we didn''t say we hate all Iraqis.

We can laugh at children dying who never did anything to us because we think we are getting someone back for something. What part of that behavior makes us a great Christian nation?

What is happening in Somali is tied to our policy there. We''ve propped up a government there because we didn''t like the established government. We did it at a time that the established government was starting to create some stability. We''ve dropped bombs on civilians. We have gotten ourselves involved in the chaos. Yet, we don''t feel a need to get involved in the solution.

[kailumego1]

jackie0428 and robertkjjj, it always amazes me when the so-called intelligentsia writes garble and slanted journalism to substantiate a bogus argument.

Couldn''t find anything pertinent to articulate or criticize about her argument, so you resort to picking apart her sentence structure, what a cheap shot and a true measure of your lack of psychological maturity.

Whatithink was speaking, no writing, about the effects of neo-colonialism that has, no, which has, oh whatever, encompassed Africa''s political, economical, and social structure, by fascist governments like the U.S...

And you want to talk about ramblings, from what I''ve read of either post, you''ve both lacked to support your argument with "FACTS"...

A fact, on the eve, of the official end of slavery, Western Europeans, e.g. the Geneva Conference, calculated a plan to carve Africa up into regions for the sole purpose of economic exploitation, which included all African countries with the exception of Ethiopia..

Now, the plan was to conquer all of African territory, but Ethiopia didn''t capitulate, unlike the rest...

France and England claimed West and South Africa, later came the Dutch, while Belgium laid claim to the Congo, now I didn''t mention Germany, Spain, or Portugal..

[kailumego1]

It has been duly known, by Western European powers, including the United States, that the social and political structure within African society, countries, etc. has existed in fractionalization.

Therefore, understanding this longstanding historical rivalry, Western Europeans and Americans took full "disadvantage" of the situation, with which was often at the determent of the people, through supporting vicious warlords and ruthless dictators..

And if you''re not aware of this read some unbiased material, e.g. books, journal articles, archives on African history, instead of the prejudicial propagandist material you''re accustomed to reading.

What she was trying to convey to you "grandiose intelligentsias", that the United States has had its hand in the civil disobedience, to nice of a word, the civil degradation, self-destructiveness, barbarianism , etc., through covert back-door dealings, suppling guerrilla factions with guns and ammunition.

Now pick apart my sentences, because only an idiot lacking comprehension and critical analysis would stoop so low as to look for grammar inefficiencies as oppose to analyzing the merit of an argument.

[whatithink-2009]

jackie0428,

That is so the typical process of today. Try to demonize the person that is sending the message because you don''t want to face the truth. You have said nothing in rebuttal to my message, which means you have nothing to give. You can say what you want against me, I don''t care. Just let our government do what it wants to do without opening your eyes to the truth. Maybe one day you''ll get out of your ignorance and help to make this country and the world a better place. Until then, you are just part of the problem. Look in the mirror or do you have the guts?

[runningralph]

whatithink,
I assume you are talking to me. Do I have the whole story? No, I don''t. Do you? All I know is what I read, or see on TV or hear on the radio. Do you have some inside information? If you tell me where you get your info, maybe I could know as much as you.
Your post poses several questions. I will answer them. "what about Iraq?" Iraq is where Bush decided to make a stand against terrorism. Like it or not, that''s what Iraq is about. American interests. Pearl Harbor was a vicious attack by an enemy seeking world domination. Fighting that one was also in our interest.Viet Nam was where the US drew a line in the sand against world domination by Communism. Afghanistan was harboring bin Laden. Maybe not very strategic, but the jury is still out on that. In Somalia we tried to help, just like in Beirut. We were rebuffed. And it wasn''t just the American soldier being killed, it was the celebration of the populace that showed why we shouldn''t be there.
As far as the incident in 2006 I read that the US action was in support of the fledgling government. Maybe you know something I don''t what with your inside info.

[downtowner97]

Wow. That is so not our problem. We went to Somalia and tried to help, and the people acted like absolute animals.

There are problems in the US, like a $30,000 per man, woman and child debt, hunger, bankruptcies, foreclosures, AIDS, Hepatitis, leaky borders, collapsing bridges, drought, corruption... The people in Somalia are acting horribly of their own volition. They''ve made bad choices, and they are suffering the consequences.

Again, I say it''s not our problem.

[secundus2]

Locate all the cesspools of human ignorance on a world map and you''ll see two things: militant Islam flourishes there and people are dying by the tens of thousands every year, Over the past decade it hasn''t mattered whether it was Chechnya, Darfur, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon or anywhere else. The scourge is the same.

[mh4cbs1]

Wow thats alot of dead civilians.

About 1% of the number of dead civilians that Cheney and Bush ''Shock and Awe'' invasion and occupation are responsible for.

Face the ugly truth! Cheney and Bush LIED us into a needless WAR to dominate the region and secure their Oil for US Corporations.

Face the ugly truth! Bush/Cheney War, waged with complict spineless Democrat support, is responsible for far more innocent deaths than Osama Bin Forgotten.

JAIL BUSH JAIL CHENEY for their War Crimes and fore shredding our constitution.

[robertkjjj]

Jackie, great post re WhatIThink. Yeah, the rest of us out here barely tolerant this freakish woman as well. You''ll have to get used to her, as her and other crazies like to occupy their unemployed existence filling up the CBS forums with their mindless drivel. Welcome aboard, and well put, though.