Comments on: U.N.: 3,709 Iraqis Killed In October

Highest Monthly Civilian Toll Since War Started; Bush, Al-Maliki To Meet Next Week

[diverinnl]

You're right but we've probably lost any and all credibility in the UN. If we go back now, hat in hand, we will definitely lose any leverage we may still have. They will eat us alive with "I told ya' so's".

[rsoxfan1123]

diverinnl-the answer lies in rebuilding the ties with the UN that bush wrecked and working cooperatively in the region.

[rsoxfan1123]

Marcor1371- my daughter is six now. I hope everything turns out ok for you. your daughter deserves to know her father.

[diverinnl]

One of the major problems the military now faces over there is that we are asking these fine guys and gals to be diplomats, much as we did in Vietnam. That is not their job. They are caught in the crossfire of a civil war between Islamic sects and can't readily identify the enemy. I am a veteren of the first gulf war and know full well the capabilities of Saddam if left to his own devices. He had to go, it's that simple but if we leave now, we run a very distinct risk of the Iranians creating another nation of zealots, further destabilizing and already shaky region. I am split on this. I don't want to subject our citizens, especially those who willingly sacrifice for us, to be the worlds police force. On the other hand, I don't want our nation to create a deeper vacuum in that region that sucks in terrorists and zealots and spits them out at us and our allies. Is there a right answer?

[rsoxfan1123]

Marcor1371-you do realize that the same logic you are using now was tried in Viet Nam? We'd STILL be "staying the course" there as well had we followed it. I do have a tremendous amount of respect for those who serve, however, and have friends in the army that have also served in Desert Storm. I just hate to see you die for lies.

[marcor1371]

Well rsoxfan1123, you are obviously a democrat and vote directly on that line. Which is fine. Your son or daughter may not have a choice, the democratic party would like to re-instate the draft. I'm not sure why, the services are holding, recruiting levels have not dropped that drastically, and everyone that is currently in a branch of the service joined while this country was at war. The only way my friends and subordinates will have died in vain, would be to pull out now. The lives that have been lost should be for something, we need to stay the course. I am active duty Marine Corps and I just finished my 3rd tour in Iraq. I have spent 21 months out of the last 32 in Iraq. I know what it is to spend time away from my wife and two daughters (age 6 & 8). The first time I went over to Iraq my oldest daughter at that time was 6 and told me it was time to be someone elses hero for awhile. I told her I was no hero. She stated "a hero is someone who does something good for someone else.

[laurieleemoo]

way to go bozos---thats it ...keep killing your own people you MORONS! What idiots those Iraqis are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[observantx]

That is what has been the biggest surprise to me! People aren't marching in the streets over the obscene costs of this needless war! The utter waste that has taken place in Iraq! And literally nothing has been accomplished!

Grumpas;

I think to the real reason there has been no protest is that there is not a draft. Fearless Leader knows that if there was a draft and the average voter saw their sons and daughters being rounded up for service in this debacle, the fence around our White House would have been flattened by hordes of protesters by now. Since we don%u2019t have unwilling conscripts being thrown into the meat grinder, there is no fuss.

His backdoor solution is the National Guard. Fearless Leader just keeps rotating them in over and over and delaying their return to their families when their tours are up. In essence, they HAVE been drafted.

[rsoxfan1123]

Marcor1371 -you're the kind of person that believes what he's told by the higher-ups and doesn't think for himself. you've bought the party line hook and sinker and believe we are there for WMD, or to spread democracy, or because iraq blew up the world trade center, or whatever other new reason comes along. wake up.

[diverinnl]

I WISH!!! My voter registration card says 'NP' for No Party. I generally vote Republican based on Fiscal values (i.e. taxes) but I have voted Democrat and am willing to again if the person is right for the job.

I sincerely appreciate the kind words and the feeling is mutual.

[rsoxfan1123]

Marcor1371-I wouldn't throw thier lives away. defending our country is one thing, dying so that bush's oil buddies can make money and so Junior can try to be the great conqueror is another.

[rsoxfan1123]

diverinnl-thanks. that's what I like about you, you are rational and don't adhere blindly to a party line. you think for yourself and therefore make valid points as well. how you got dragged into the repubs is a mystery. maybe you are part of the extremely wealthy voter base of theirs?

[marcor1371]

I never asked nor did this country ask you to enlist your son or daughter in the military. It is still a choice, one decides on his own. But if your son or daughter did join, because, they felt compelled to make a differance in someone elses life, would you no longer love them, no longer value their opinions, disown them, lose respect for them? Your the type of person that would witness a violent crime and then do nothing because it didn't involve you, unless you could get something out of it.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.

[diverinnl]

Well, I have to admit that is a valid point.

[rsoxfan1123]

diverinnl-I'm smarter than to get my kid killed for a country that's forging aliances with our enemies even as our troops die there. talk about stupid.

[rsoxfan1123]

bushrocks1-quit copy-pasting this stuff. it's annoying.

[diverinnl]

rsoxfan1123, that is that exact same attitude that kept the US out of Europe until 1944. How many innocent people were slaughtered because we were isolationists and turned a blind eye then? The world is getting smaller everyday and we live in a "global village". If you don't want to volunteer, that is your right and I support your decision. But by saying that what is happening so far away does not effect us here is a little narrow minded. We've debated before and I know you're smarter than that.

[rsoxfan1123]

marcpcbs-they are fighting for the reasons they are told. the reality is they were put in harm's way so Junior can do better than his dad and make some money for his oil barons friends. Anyone who believes we went in there for WMD, or because we love democracy so much that we want to spread it through the world one country at a time and just decided to start with Iraq is naive.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.