I've watched Oliver in two interviews. He says this was not racially motivated but does not answer one basic question. Why did Zimmerman see Trayvon as suspicious? It is that question which raises racial motivation in this case. You can't just say this is not about race without answering that simple question. I am insulted that they bring out this black man to say it. Frankly, it smacks of legal grandstanding by Zimmerman's lawyer and Oliver's response is therefore null and void in my opinion.
The comments made by Zimmerman about "young blk youth" and the apparent disrespect the law enforcement has for this case, constitutes that racism is still prevelant and if you think otherwise I challenge you to look at the obvious evidence the tapes reports and the actions taken by the police. Put your place in our shoes,how would you react?
If Trevon Martin was on the "neighborhood watch" and told by a 9-1-1 dispatcher, to not follow, approach or engage a "suspect" but instead, Trevon followed a hooded, white Hispanic guy who was walking about, and looking suspicious, and on drugs, and made the comment "they (crackers) always get away before getting out and approaching the "suspect" AND that engagement resulted in Trevon Martin standing over a 17 year old white Hispanic teen armed with a can of tea and a bag of candy, he would have more than likely been shot dead by the officers. If the officers would not have felt threatened by the gun wielding black man who just "accidentally" murdered the white Hispanic teen, he would have been IMMEDIATELY taken into custody AND the father of the white Hispanic teen would be asking for NO LESS THAN THE DEATH PENALTY. Of course the distraught father would be jumping the gun on thinking justice would be done by taking the life or at least removing Trevon Martin from our civilized society. Trevon Martin would easily get life in prison in most ANY courtroom in the country. The saddest part of the story BEYOND Trevon's death is the fact that Zimmerman's friends and family have their wagons circled and are trying to alter public opinion by putting a "black" friend before the media to get "choked up" while trying to portray his friend as a non-racist. It doesn't matter whether he is racist or not, he must still pay for his grave error in judgement as if we truly lived in a color blind society. Zimmerman is distraught because he threw his life away in minutes. If he is distraught over what transpired, he would have contacted the parents to tell them he is sorry for taking the life of their child. Instead, his lawyer has a case to win. The worst that would have happened to Zimmerman if he had run from Trevon was, people might've called him a coward. Rather than lose his pride, Zimmerman stood his ground. If he had used a brain, he would have been able to not only apologize for mistaking Trevon for a "person of suspicion" because he was wearing a "hoody" (which I am wearing as I write this) but Trevon would be able to apologize to Zimmerman for kicking the ass of (who according to his conversation with his girlfriend)an armed pedophile, kidnapper or attacker. True, we are free to cast our own, uninformed dispersions about what a suspicious person looks like and even more absurdly, what a suspicious person wears, but whether it be the police OR a trained, neighborhood watch captain. Racial profiling is not a fool-proof method for diminishing crime. ALL TEENS WEAR HOODIES AND JEANS! Members of the Mafia wear suits and ties. Should bankers and lawyers AND Geraldo Rivera start wearing labels so we know they won't rip us off OR ******** us? As a Christian, I LOVE Zimmerman and as an American I would LOVE to see him behind bars for the rest of his life.
I wonder if you can make sure you include the word "white" in front of Hispanic a bit more, you race baiting ******.
He is Hispanic... plain and simple. But you are trying to sensationalize an already polarizing situation. I get it.. it's to strengthen your own agenda. But, if you do want to add that evil "white" word in front of the man's description because he has some Caucasian heritage, then please, by all means, start addressing President Obama as a "white African American." There is no difference between the two.
twizatch Hispanic is not a racial category; Hispanics can be of any race -- white, black, Asian, or native American. In many Latin American countries with sizable Hispanic populations of African descent and I understand Zimmerman's mother is Peruvian, race relations are still at very primitive levels. Television programming often features stereotypical racist imagery America has not seen since the 1920's and 30's. The racist programming makes "Amos and Andy" look positively progressive. Cubans in Florida for instance are mostly white and they very much exhibit the same racial behavior as American whites. After all they came to America because they saw themselves as losing their privilege as whites in Cuba. So to say Hispanic doesn't say anything about the individual's racial background or identity. White American conservatives rather than look at their own racist attitudes have decided to start saying everybody else is racist. Please.
The only reason why Zimmerman has any injuries was because Trayvon Martin was defending himself and fighting for his life. We heard the tapes.. Zimmerman is the aggressor. He is the attacker. He is the murderer. He initiated the contact and pursued Trayvon ignoring the suggestion and warnings of the 911 operator again.. the aggressor. For what ever reason.. Zimmerman acted on his own accord and confronted a stranger, pursued him, followed him, accused him, then attacked him. Trayvon is the one doing the self defense. WHO HAD THE GUN!!! ZIMMERMAN!!!
I agree - mostly. I the mind of Trayvon, Zimmerman was probably a very dangerous person stalking him and out to do harm; the only person that seemed to know this was a community watch was Zimmerman considering that he had no markings or uniform to indicate who he was or that he was operating in a quasi-official capacity.
The cards were stacked against Trayvon. He reacted naturally. I think we need to train our children how to react in this situation. I feel that Trayvon should have ran away; human instinct is fight or flight. If we can teach our kids to just run, I think they have a better chance in situations like this.
Was this murder? Was it negligent homicide? Was in man-slaughter? I'm not sure which it was, so my disagreement with your statement is that we can't jump to the conclusion that this was premeditated murder. You don't have enough information as to Zimmermans state of mind to do that.
Let's say we give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt and accept that Trayvon hit him first. Does that in some way change my conviction that Zimmerman was the agressor? No, it doesn't. Zimmerman has followed this kid and followed him. Trayvon has no idea who this man is or why he is following him. Zimmerman admits he had lost him and then he pops up again right behind the kid. At this point what is Trayvon supposed to think. Trayvon also told his girlfriend he had lost him and then, "No he's right behind me." This kid feels really threatened; this big dude is riding around following him and gets out of his car and a confrontation occurs. Trayvon has every right to defend himself from this man who is obviously threatening him. Now, Zimmerman is on the ground supposedly with Trayvon on top of him and he shoots the kid. At what point did Zimmerman decide to arm himself with the gun on his person? Or does this fool always walk around with a gun on his person.
Well I wonder if Mr. Joe Oliver, i.e., "Zimmerman friend" is aware of Mr. Zimmerman's "under his breath" REMARK he made about black people on the 911 tape. That is exactly why we KNOW this is a RACIST shooting! I suggest "Zimmerman friend" go listen to that tape and then as a BLACK MAN ask himself if the "racist" not "racial" but racist aspect of this is all imaginary and in everybody's mind. The Bible says: "Out of the abundance of a man's heart will he speak." The "abundance of Mr. Zimmerman's heart" was made quite apparent and transparent on how he truly feels about Black people on his own 911 tape. The only one living in an "imaginary" world I am afraid is Mr. Oliver. Wake up Bro, seriously!
The only reason why Zimmerman has any injuries was because Trayvon Martin was defending himself and fighting for his life. We heard the tapes.. Zimmerman is the aggressor. He is the attacker. He is the murderer. He initiated the contact and pursued Trayvon ignoring the suggestion and warnings of the 911 operator again.. the aggressor. For what ever reason.. Zimmerman acted on his own accord and confronted a stranger, pursued him, followed him, accused him, then attacked him. Trayvon is the one doing the self defense. WHO HAD THE GUN!!! ZIMMERMAN!!!
People want to make this a "black and white" case, no pun intended. There are some gray areas here.
I'm not convinced the shooting itself was racially motivated. Is there a different standard for white people and black people when it comes to the police dealing with cases like this? Of course - so in that sense this is a case involving racial inequities.
That said, I also think that Zimmerman was negligent based upon the limited information I have. I don't think he should have brought a gun to the neighborhood watch, and I don't understand why he would have it on him when confronting Trayvon Martin. I also am not sure why he was apparently not wearing any type of clothing indicating that he was the neighborhood watch, or why he confronted Trayvon.
In summary Zimmerman may not be racist but he was certainly stupid/negligent for bringing the gun. If he wanted to start a neighborhood watch he should have done it the right way and learned about how to do that safely. Neighborhood watches should be better organized and they need training, identification, and the support of local law enforcement.
They also need to take orders from local authorities; when the 9-11 operator says "do not follow" that should mean return to your vehicle and park it.
At the end of the day Zimmerman needs to face justice. He took a life, and self-defense or not that life was taken because of his negligence. I think punishment is appropriate - but I also believe a jury needs to be tasked with that job, not the media and not a vigilante, even though Zimmerman's actions themselves appear to be a form of vigilante-ism.
Zimmerman did have formal training as a neighborhood watchman. The guidelines specifically state that watchmen are not to be armed and are not to take matters into their own hands, but to contact the police and let them handle it. The interesting thing is that Zimmerman was not on watch duty at the time of the shooting. He was supposedly out for a trip to the store as well. A person living in a gated community needs to take a gun with him to the store and ends up shooting an innocent boy? It seems that Zimmerman was out looking for trouble.
Regardless of whether this was racially motivated or not, it's more than just negligence when a person disregards police instruction, pursues another human being and shoots him down. Martin had a right to fight back, he was defending himself. With a 100lb weight advantage, I'm sure Zimmerman could have found another way to subdue this unarmed boy, if he truly felt threatened. However, he had to make sure Martin didn't live to tell his side of the story.
@LPATWILLFILM I'm not sure what he said under his breath. Do you have a link?
I would also point out that Zimmerman himself is hispanic and from a mixed ethnic background, according to this article: http://www.rightsidenews.com/2012032615906/editorial/world-opinion-and-editorial/it-doesnt-matter-if-youre-black-or-white.html.
Him being hispanic doesn't prove that it wasn't racist because everyone is capable of displaying racism - I've heard racist comments from black people, hispanic people, and white people.
Having racist thoughts and shooting someone because you're a racist are two separate issues. Let's be intellectually honest for a moment.
Everyone is racist and has racist thoughts, at least to some degree. Some are more racist than others - but deep down everyone feels that they are superior in some way to everyone else and most especially to people of other races. It's a human flaw, but to deny the existence of this feeling is also a flaw. Visit any prison and you will see that people choose to separate themselves based on race - even people who on the outside have friends of another race. When humans are left to their own devices, they will almost always choose a path of racism.
In short, to prove that Zimmerman committed a hate crime you must do more than demonstrate he was racist. You have to prove that he killed because of race. Otherwise, any murder against someone of another race is by default a hate crime since everyone - even you and even myself - are racist. Even Al Sharpton is racist, and dare I say it even the Pope.
We shouldn't deny racism. We should accept that we all have this thing and recognize it as a human flaw, so that we can tame our inner-racist. As soon as we all get past denial we can actually make real gains in the fight against racism.
The people who say "I don't see color" are lying. Some of you are going to read my post and think to yourself "damn white guy". You'll have racist thoughts about what I've said. That's OK, because it's human nature. Now get over it. Tame the beast.
(I suspect that)Zimmerman fired that weapon, not because he hated black people. He fired it because he FEARED black people. Racism usually manifests itself in fear, so when you make people of another race fear you, you are actually inciting racism yourself. Machismo and displays of aggression feed racism, and are counter-productive.
Now, that isn't to say that looking or dressing tough (say with a hoodie and certain attire associated with gang members) makes it OK for you to be murdered or become a victim - just like dressing provocative doesn't give someone the right to rape a woman. But both things will certainly draw out the worst in people and provoke human responses - sometimes dangerous responses. In one case it draws out fear which is easily converted into violence, and the other case it draws out lust which is also easily converted into violence.
LINK ONE
http://patdollard.com/2012/03/did-george-zimmerman-complain-about-*******-coons-in-911-call-before-killing-trayvon-martin/
LINK TWO -- I ACTUALLY SAW CNN LAST WEEK ISOLATE THE AUDIO
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-isolates-audio-of-zimmerman-911-call-racial-slur-now-very-likely/
And, no not everyone is "racist" in their thoughts. I am NOT "racist" in my thoughts. You know why?
Because I know EVERYBODY IS EVIL, ALL MEN ARE SINNERS.
And, except you have THE LOVE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
truly abiding within you, you cannot walk in Truth nor
Love. Racism is a deception. I am a BLACK PERSON and
some of the sweetest, kindest folks I have met and known
have been non-blacks, on the flipside... Some of the most
unkind and rude folks I have met have been my own black folk.
Conversely, I have met some BLACK FOLK that have the most precious, beautiful hearts and on the flipside... I have met
some horrible and hateful non-blacks. So, what do I conclude?
I CONCLUDE GOOD & EVIL COMES IN EVERY SHADE, COLOR AND RACE.
So, that is why I do not walk in "racist thoughts" because you
have to "judge a man" based upon not only his character but his
heart and treatment of you. Good treatment. Bad treatment. Comes in every shade. LINK THREE
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-isolates-audio-of-zimmerman-911-call-racial-slur-now-very-likely/
"They are able to let out the information like the 911 tapes and how many times Zimmerman called 911 but nothing on the other guy like his criminal record."
So I take it you ARE aware of Zimmerman's arrest record and history of violence?
Exactly! They immediately tested the dead teen for drugs and checked is criminal history (or lack there of). However, they just took Zimmerman's word and let him go without checking anything or taking his weapon. Even police get there guns taken after a shooting until an investigation is conducted.
This young boy was not even treated like a person. They didn't bother to knock on doors in the neighborhood to find his family. His phone was lying there on the scene, but they didn't even dial a number to notify his family. Martin's dad had to report his son missing before they came to his house and showed him pictures of his dead son.
As a Floridian and a mother of three sons, I am extremely disturbed by this story!
"BTW Zimmerman sustained a broken nose and injuries to the back of his head from Martin attacking him."
If in fact Zimmerman had those injuries, you don't know that Martin attacked Zimmerman.
Moreover Zimmerman outweighed Martin by 80 lbs, and had police training. You seriously think he couldn't defend himself without shooting an unarmed 17 year old boy?
What you DO know is that Zimmerman was stalking Martin, after he was told by 911 NOT TO.
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He is Hispanic... plain and simple. But you are trying to sensationalize an already polarizing situation. I get it.. it's to strengthen your own agenda. But, if you do want to add that evil "white" word in front of the man's description because he has some Caucasian heritage, then please, by all means, start addressing President Obama as a "white African American." There is no difference between the two.
Now do you see how ridiculous you sound?
The cards were stacked against Trayvon. He reacted naturally. I think we need to train our children how to react in this situation. I feel that Trayvon should have ran away; human instinct is fight or flight. If we can teach our kids to just run, I think they have a better chance in situations like this.
Was this murder? Was it negligent homicide? Was in man-slaughter? I'm not sure which it was, so my disagreement with your statement is that we can't jump to the conclusion that this was premeditated murder. You don't have enough information as to Zimmermans state of mind to do that.
I'm not convinced the shooting itself was racially motivated. Is there a different standard for white people and black people when it comes to the police dealing with cases like this? Of course - so in that sense this is a case involving racial inequities.
That said, I also think that Zimmerman was negligent based upon the limited information I have. I don't think he should have brought a gun to the neighborhood watch, and I don't understand why he would have it on him when confronting Trayvon Martin. I also am not sure why he was apparently not wearing any type of clothing indicating that he was the neighborhood watch, or why he confronted Trayvon.
In summary Zimmerman may not be racist but he was certainly stupid/negligent for bringing the gun. If he wanted to start a neighborhood watch he should have done it the right way and learned about how to do that safely. Neighborhood watches should be better organized and they need training, identification, and the support of local law enforcement.
They also need to take orders from local authorities; when the 9-11 operator says "do not follow" that should mean return to your vehicle and park it.
At the end of the day Zimmerman needs to face justice. He took a life, and self-defense or not that life was taken because of his negligence. I think punishment is appropriate - but I also believe a jury needs to be tasked with that job, not the media and not a vigilante, even though Zimmerman's actions themselves appear to be a form of vigilante-ism.
Regardless of whether this was racially motivated or not, it's more than just negligence when a person disregards police instruction, pursues another human being and shoots him down. Martin had a right to fight back, he was defending himself. With a 100lb weight advantage, I'm sure Zimmerman could have found another way to subdue this unarmed boy, if he truly felt threatened. However, he had to make sure Martin didn't live to tell his side of the story.
I would also point out that Zimmerman himself is hispanic and from a mixed ethnic background, according to this article: http://www.rightsidenews.com/2012032615906/editorial/world-opinion-and-editorial/it-doesnt-matter-if-youre-black-or-white.html.
Him being hispanic doesn't prove that it wasn't racist because everyone is capable of displaying racism - I've heard racist comments from black people, hispanic people, and white people.
Having racist thoughts and shooting someone because you're a racist are two separate issues. Let's be intellectually honest for a moment.
Everyone is racist and has racist thoughts, at least to some degree. Some are more racist than others - but deep down everyone feels that they are superior in some way to everyone else and most especially to people of other races. It's a human flaw, but to deny the existence of this feeling is also a flaw. Visit any prison and you will see that people choose to separate themselves based on race - even people who on the outside have friends of another race. When humans are left to their own devices, they will almost always choose a path of racism.
In short, to prove that Zimmerman committed a hate crime you must do more than demonstrate he was racist. You have to prove that he killed because of race. Otherwise, any murder against someone of another race is by default a hate crime since everyone - even you and even myself - are racist. Even Al Sharpton is racist, and dare I say it even the Pope.
We shouldn't deny racism. We should accept that we all have this thing and recognize it as a human flaw, so that we can tame our inner-racist. As soon as we all get past denial we can actually make real gains in the fight against racism.
The people who say "I don't see color" are lying. Some of you are going to read my post and think to yourself "damn white guy". You'll have racist thoughts about what I've said. That's OK, because it's human nature. Now get over it. Tame the beast.
(I suspect that)Zimmerman fired that weapon, not because he hated black people. He fired it because he FEARED black people. Racism usually manifests itself in fear, so when you make people of another race fear you, you are actually inciting racism yourself. Machismo and displays of aggression feed racism, and are counter-productive.
Now, that isn't to say that looking or dressing tough (say with a hoodie and certain attire associated with gang members) makes it OK for you to be murdered or become a victim - just like dressing provocative doesn't give someone the right to rape a woman. But both things will certainly draw out the worst in people and provoke human responses - sometimes dangerous responses. In one case it draws out fear which is easily converted into violence, and the other case it draws out lust which is also easily converted into violence.
http://patdollard.com/2012/03/did-george-zimmerman-complain-about-*******-coons-in-911-call-before-killing-trayvon-martin/
LINK TWO -- I ACTUALLY SAW CNN LAST WEEK ISOLATE THE AUDIO
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-isolates-audio-of-zimmerman-911-call-racial-slur-now-very-likely/
And, no not everyone is "racist" in their thoughts.
I am NOT "racist" in my thoughts. You know why?
Because I know EVERYBODY IS EVIL, ALL MEN ARE SINNERS.
And, except you have THE LOVE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
truly abiding within you, you cannot walk in Truth nor
Love. Racism is a deception. I am a BLACK PERSON and
some of the sweetest, kindest folks I have met and known
have been non-blacks, on the flipside... Some of the most
unkind and rude folks I have met have been my own black folk.
Conversely, I have met some BLACK FOLK that have the most
precious, beautiful hearts and on the flipside... I have met
some horrible and hateful non-blacks. So, what do I conclude?
I CONCLUDE GOOD & EVIL COMES IN EVERY SHADE, COLOR AND RACE.
So, that is why I do not walk in "racist thoughts" because you
have to "judge a man" based upon not only his character but his
heart and treatment of you. Good treatment. Bad treatment. Comes in every shade.
LINK THREE
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-isolates-audio-of-zimmerman-911-call-racial-slur-now-very-likely/
"They are able to let out the information like the 911 tapes and how many times Zimmerman called 911 but nothing on the other guy like his criminal record."
So I take it you ARE aware of Zimmerman's arrest record and history of violence?
Or maybe you're not interested in that?
This young boy was not even treated like a person. They didn't bother to knock on doors in the neighborhood to find his family. His phone was lying there on the scene, but they didn't even dial a number to notify his family. Martin's dad had to report his son missing before they came to his house and showed him pictures of his dead son.
As a Floridian and a mother of three sons, I am extremely disturbed by this story!
"BTW Zimmerman sustained a broken nose and injuries to the back of his head from Martin attacking him."
If in fact Zimmerman had those injuries, you don't know that Martin attacked Zimmerman.
Moreover Zimmerman outweighed Martin by 80 lbs, and had police training. You seriously think he couldn't defend himself without shooting an unarmed 17 year old boy?
What you DO know is that Zimmerman was stalking Martin, after he was told by 911 NOT TO.