Comments on: Inside Holland's "Half Baked" Pot Policy
Amid Calls for Marijuana Legalization in the U.S., CBSNews.com Looks at the Lessons of the Dutch Approach
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- In the article the author uses the term "lifetime user rate" which means people who have used marijuana at least 1 time in their lives, but could easily be interpreted as people who use marijuana for their life time. Why would an author use such an ambiguous term unless he was not impartial. Not mentioned was the customers, who are almost entirely tourists. Even more important to consider is the danger of D.U.I. which would be created in the U.S., if such a law were adopted. In Amsterdam, where public transportation is much more available and bicycles dominate cars, it is not the problem that it would be in the states, unless a reliable test and strict punishment for intoxication, similar to those used for alcohol. Until such testing was used, it would be premature to adopt legalization.
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- Although I'm not convinced legalizing pot is the right thing to do, whether legal or not people are already smoking and driving and I seriously doubt that would increase with legalization. We already have laws against driving/boating while impaired.
- It would increase because like most laws--a substantial amount of the population refrain from drug use because it is presently illegal. But here is the thing--why does anyone think testing will deter use of pot once it is legal--testing might increase fines and add revenue, but testing is not what keeps people from overindulgence, they are the same things that keeps many people from indulging in the first place--self control, self respect, self discipline, and respect for the law. When one removes the "legal" aspect, many who do not use now will begin to use because it is sanctioned and with the eventual impairment--the other aspects (self control, discipline, etc) will weaken and thus will encourage chronic and continual use.
- It may surprise many but more and more professionals uses marijuana as though they are having a beer after work or having a nightcap before they go to bed. In my opinion, it should be treated in the same manner as alcohol beverages. The usage of these drugs is greatly dependent on the person who is using them. Some people are socialable with it, some are really hard on them and some are in between the two. It greatly depends on the individual.
- by toldyouso29 July 14, 2009 8:40 AM EDT
It would increase because like most laws--a substantial amount of the population refrain from drug use because it is presently illegal
So these responsible people who respect the law and don't smoke marijuana because it is illegal are suddenly going to start breaking DUI laws if marijuana is legalized? What foolishness. The people who will drive high after legalization are probably already doing it, you just aren't aware of it because it all falls under DUI.
- by toldyouso29 July 14, 2009 3:50 PM EDT
Yep. If Marijuana was legal, I would have tried it--if only to see what all the fuss is about.
But that isn't the question. The question is would you then drive, or would you still respect the law?
- No that was not the question, the question was : would people who don't smoke already because it is illegal do so if it was legal and would SOME of those people get behind the wheel and drive?
now to your question--NO--I would not get behind the wheel and drive--BUT others would , like some people speed when others don't and some drink and drive--it is disingenius to imagine that everyone who uses will have the integrity to use responsibly or that with the using and poor judgment will not on several occassions--come tragedies just like we have now with Drunk driving--only the modus operandi of the DUI will change--but the innocents will be dead just the same.
- Of course, if pot is legalised there will be people who drive stoned and cause accidents. But, I think you will see an interesting side effect if pot is legalized, I think you will see the number of drunk people and people on prescription drugs who drive and causes accidents GO DOWN.
People who drive impaired have the mindset that "I'm not impaired" even when they are. The number of people who think like that isn't going to jump just because pot becomes legal. Out of this "pool of fools" is where all the drunk and prescription-impaired and illegal-pot-impaired drivers come from. The pool isn't going to get any bigger, but the distribution within the pool will almost certainly change.
The situation is similar to the speed limits. Remember all the bleeding hearts said how the 55Mph speed limit saves lives - then when they raised it, highway deaths DID NOT increase - and in fact, DECREASED slightly. Why this happen is that the pool of accident-prone-idiot-drivers didn't get any bigger just because the speed limit went up. Just like the pool of "I-dont-think-im-impaired" drivers isn't going to get bigger just because pot becomes available.
- Somehow I don't think so. I think you will see DUI's go up because each person has their drug of choice. for some it is Rx drugs..for others alcohol and for others marijuana or other drugs--people who have a 'taste' for a product will use that product--some will use drugs and alcohol but I doubt the amount will go down--but perhaps over time, the amount who use marijuana will be greater than the amount that use alcohol--I can see the ads now "This is not your father's drug anymore"
- French president Jacques Chirac suggested the country's position was weakening Europe-wide efforts to combat drug use.
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Here's your sign, Fear of legalizing Marijuana the evil weed that according to Reefer Madness will make you clinically insane. And the Drug companies say it has no medical value. What they were really saying was we can't control it and exclusively profit from it. And the governments, who are the functionaries of Corporations won't be able to control you by fear, they want a drug war so they can collect taxes. While creating a controlled population of cheap labor and at the same time collecting taxes to pay for the privatized prisons. Gov/Corp gets the gold mine and we the people get the shaft. - Reply to this comment
- I find it hard to believe someone who enjoys smoking pot is going to switch to a drug that is the TOTAL opposite in the effects of smoking weed. But then again people believe all kind of stupid reasons to justify the reasons to say something
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- Those things you just mentioned are illegal as well now. It hasn't stopped people from doing any of the above has it? Just as I am sure people smoke now and drive.
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- Potheads are drug addicts too, just a stepping stone to meth and crack. If there is anyone who acts dumber but thinks they are more brilliant than someone high on pot I haven't met them.
Potheads are pathetic losers, like all drug addicts. - Reply to this comment
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- I find it hard to believe someone who enjoys smoking pot is going to switch to a drug that is the TOTAL opposite in the effects of smoking weed. But then again people believe all kind of stupid reasons to justify the reasons to say something
- zonkzilla time to drive safely but please be sure to check your rear view mirror for hazards while you preach your message. You would not want to take your mind off driving while motorcyclists are driving it's just not safety first zonkzilla. Do ya get it zonkzilla? Remember zonkzilla potheads are pathetic losers!! right on zonkzilla right on zonkzilla right on zonkzilla. Your ok buddy ;-|>
- Many pot smokers do progress to other drugs--because the reason is not simply the effects of weed--it is the effects of taking drugs. So many will try the opposite effect just for the effect. I know many, many pot smokers but I know few pot smokers who just used weed and never tried sprinkling cocaine in their joint or did not try ecstasy, or other drugs at some point even if it was only to decide weed was best.
Face it, some who try the other "recreational drugs" find they like that different high too.
There are many people who smoke weed and do nothing else--but there are few people who do coke, heroin, mushrooms, LSD, meth, crack or other substances and do not also do weed. There IS a connection, even if it ultimately is individual and face it--given weeds altering of brain cells--those who partake cannot be perceived as being in the best of judgments when it comes to using--their rationale and thought processes are already compromised.
- Many many abuse prescription drugs also while the pharm. companies make millions off of them. Many Dr. shop also while the Doctor makes millions off of these people. One reason why pot will never be legal in this country. Too many people will lose MONEY if it became legal. Even just for medical purposes! Many legal prescription drugs have worse side effects and have proven to be more addictive than pot many times over.
- Before they die though--perhaps you should learn how to spell from them. Not "there'--but "they're". LOL
- What you are saying is every one who smokes or smoked pot has become or will become meth head. Your ignorance is exceeded by your lack of iniative to improve your IQ.
- Everyone who smokes dope will NOT become a meth head or heroin addict--but most of us can agree that it is likely some will... on the other hand, it would be interesting to see how many use another illegal drug recreationally that do not smoke pot or did not begin their drug experimentation by first smoking pot.
- Marijuana isn't addicting. And I know dozens of marijuana smokers, none of whom have ever done meth or crack.
- by toldyouso29 July 14, 2009 12:05 PM EDT
Marijuana like soda or coffee IS addicting. I also know many people who smoked pot in the 1970s, still smoke daily and never moved on to anything else--they also usually never progressed very far in their careers and though they may have trouble meeting the mortgage or paying their credit card--they always have money for reefer or to buy a "few joints"..When something is addictive, it does not mean one has to curl up in a corner and vomit and have chills--one can be psychologically addictive too.
We used to say cocaine was not addictive--oops our mistake. Any drugs can be addictive if used chronically. Depending on a person's individual biochemistry, their cells can become used to assimilating certain chemicals and when not available sluggishness, mood or hormonal changes can occur --which means that substance is addictive.
Perhaps not as addictive as other substances and more subtle--but the net effect of any addictive substance or act is that for some persons the stopping, produces anxiety, anger or a level of discomfort either physically or psychologically that most make the decision to keep using rather than stop.
Case in point: Coca cola is addictive--if one stops drinking it--a caffiene headache is likely to develop--not for all users--but for many. Texting and cell phone use is addictive for many people, to the point that if, they are forced to do without their phone for more than a few days, they have anxiety and are preoccupied wondering what is going on in the world without them inputting. Blogging and internet use and games can be addictive too.
Marijuana is addictive--if not for you--for many others.
Sorry to repeat this post--put it in under the wrong 'reply' slot
- Zonkzilla, your absurd remark is yet more proof that marijuana causes HYSTERIA IN THOSE WHO DO NOT SMOKE IT.
- zonkzilla - while I agree that potheads are drug addicts, I don't agree with the rest of your statement. I spend over a decade smoking my days away. I am happy to be on a straight line now (sober), however...I never once touched meth and crack. Your statement that pot is a stepping stone is straight out of the Refer Madness book...a book full of lies.
Who cares if the man next to you is stoned and stupid? You can care when his actions harm you. I'm sure you don't think much about people binge drinking...
Step out of the early 1900's...
- everyone seems to forget something about drugs, and that is that cigarettes and alcohol are drugs too... the dumbest, most ignorant thing i always hear from people is that weed is a gateway drug and it leads to harder drugs. they say people usually dont go into harder drugs without using pot first.
here's a question for those who thing weed is a gateway....
How many people go on to weed or any other drugs without first using alcohol or cigarettes?
do not knock down pot use or its users unless you dont have alcohol in your house or cigarettes in your bag. dont give me the "its different b/c they are legal" bull either
drugs are drugs people, you either partake in them or you dont.
- Just because many cocaine users have also used pot does not mean that many pot users are going to use cocaine. That's a false correlation if there ever was one. It's exactly like saying that since all robbers use guns, that all gun owners are robbers.
- Who are you to judge ANYONE?,,,,,,,,,As you sit there drinking alcohol, calling pot smokers drug addicts,,,,,,did you forget the millions of Americans who smoke cigarettes ?,,,,they are a drug too,,,,,,or do you not know that, or just in denial?
- "Many pot smokers do progress to other drugs" Usually for two reasons 1) by keeping it illegal the government has ensured the supply chains are the same and (2) people realise the government has lied to them about pot and (wrongly) assume they are lying about other harder drugs too. I've smoked pot and I've smoked cigarettes. I gave up pot instantly. It took me five years to give up cigarettes.
- Ok, this needs to be SERIOUSLY addressed.
"Potheads are drug addicts too, just a stepping stone to meth and crack."
Hey, I just drank a cup of coffee today. Does that mean I'm going to try to do Speed because I wasn't satisfied at being energetic enough?
Simply put, the gateway drug argument is ridiculous. It assumes that marijuana somehow makes people do other drugs when in fact it's PEOPLE who make people do drugs.
1) For my first example, I'm going to explain how I discovered a link between buying an Xbox 360 and a full Media Entertainment System. First, a disclaimer: This example does not relate Best Buy or other major retailing corporations to illegal drug dealers in any other way EXCEPT for this SPECIFIC example. I capitalize words that need emphasis.
I used to work at Best Buy as a Customer Sales Associate (the guys you see walking around in blue shirts) in the Media Department. When someone came in to buy a game console, our job was to get them to buy as much as they possibly could so that we could make (or milk) as much profit as we could from each customer. We'd become especially popular if we referred them to the Home Theater department or took their cart and pushed it over there even if they were protesting. Once they bought an HDTV, we tried to get them to buy a full surround sound set. And then a DVR recorder. Then a Media Center box. Then a PC with Media Center capabilities.
They'd go in to buy a console and go out buying much more than they ever wanted. Did they go home and play the Xbox 360 and say to themselves, "Hey, I really need a DVR Recorder?" No. That's absurd. Instead, the sellers of the good persuaded them to buy different goods so that that seller could make money. It's not the drug, it's the people selling it.
Are you ever offered a package deal to buy tobacco and alcohol? Not on your life. I wonder why...
2) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061204123422.htm
Read it and weep.
Next!
"If there is anyone who acts dumber but thinks they are more brilliant than someone high on pot I haven't met them."
Normally I'd joke about visiting Twitter on this one, but let's keep it serious. Your argument is that marijuana makes people dumber. Go tell George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Barack Obama that.
"Potheads are pathetic losers, like all drug addicts."
I'm probably going to regret responding to you because no doubt you are a troll here to just **** people off and not actually state your opinion. Oh, and put down that cup of coffee, CaffHead.
- Oh pffffffffffffffffft, what the United States should do is impose a fine of about $3,000 for the idiot tokers who can't face reality, and not send them to jail...
That way they could make HUGE amounts of money without the expense of housing the brain dead idiots...
You wanna toke up? Fine....pay the fine! We can handle that...
Just keep your plant out of my neighborhood and don't put it in front of my kids...because it's a shooting offense as far as I'm concerned. If you want to stay safe...keep your plant for your own idiot kids...mine are going to grow up to be responsible individuals who don't need a prop to face reality. - Reply to this comment
- My biggest concern is the fact that we really don't ANOTHER thing to deal with as far as automobile drivers being impaired. Alcohol, drugs, cell phone, texting,,,now pot??? Just great!
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- Those things you just mentioned are illegal as well now. It hasn't stopped people from doing any of the above has it? Just as I am sure people smoke now and drive.
- "My biggest concern" you should be concerned buddy real concerned. Still you should understand 1%er's can also be hazardous to your health too!
- hey piglet: in many states cell phone texting is NOT illegal. It should be as should be cell phones used in cars period (even if not hand held) but they are not--these phones and talking on the phone does take away the drivers concentration while in traffic.
- Marijuana like soda or coffee IS addicting. I also know many people who smoked pot in the 1970s, still smoke daily and never moved on to anything else--they also usually never progressed very far in their careers and though they may have trouble meeting the mortgage or paying their credit card--they always have money for reefer or to buy a "few joints"..When something is addictive, it does not mean one has to curl up in a corner and vomit and have chills--one can be psychologically addictive too.
We used to say cocaine was not addictive--oops our mistake. Any drugs can be addictive if used chronically. Depending on a person's individual biochemistry, their cells can become used to assimilating certain chemicals and when not available sluggishness, mood or hormonal changes can occur --which means that substance is addictive.
Perhaps not as addictive as other substances and more subtle--but the net effect of any addictive substance or act is that for some persons the stopping, produces anxiety, anger or a level of discomfort either physically or psychologically that most make the decision to keep using rather than stop.
Case in point: Coca cola is addictive--if one stops drinking it--a caffiene headache is likely to develop--not for all users--but for many. Texting and cell phone use is addictive for many people, to the point that if, they are forced to do without their phone for more than a few days, they have anxiety and are preoccupied wondering what is going on in the world without them inputting. Blogging and internet use and games can be addictive too.
Marijuana is addictive--if not for you--for many others.
- toldyouso29
You are wrong. Cannabis can be habit forming, that is true. It is not addictive, that's different. Stop spreading
misinformation. Habitual use can be a problem for some people, but it is less of a problem than what the criminal justice system can do to them. Cannabis is an uncontrolled substance under Prohibition, legalization will put it under better more effective control.
- fleabag75
Do you think they aren't out there now? Cannabis impairment is nowhere near as dangerous as alcohol impairment. That is the reason cannabis is rarely cited as the cause of accidents. It is a fallacy to think that Prohibition means there are no drivers under cannabis influence. At this moment there millions of users across the country, do you think they never drive? Please think before you post, or someone might get the impression you are impaired. ;-)
- fleabag...I think you would be surprised to find out how many stoners are already driving around you on a daily basis...
- and you might be surprised to learn how many cause accidents or drive erratically and pulled over--under those circumstances they usually just get charged with possession--unless there is an accident, then they usually get charged with possession (if they have anything on them) and the accident.
- by Edwin Hoey July 14, 2009 2:13 PM EDT
toldyouso29
You are wrong. Cannabis can be habit forming, that is true. It is not addictive, that's different. Stop spreading
misinformation. Habitual use can be a problem for some people, but it is less of a problem than what the criminal justice system can do to them. Cannabis is an uncontrolled substance under Prohibition, legalization will put it under better more effective control.
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In terms of the potential affect on an individual and in their lives,
Sorry, I disagree. The difference between the words "addictive and habit forming is one of semantics not degrees. In either case, one has adopted behavior or patterns difficult to break without concentrated effort and perhaps some discomfort--which usually means the behavior continues. For some, the "habit" may become compulsive--it is a matter of personality. Much like some who drink a lot become alcoholics and some are not really affected at all.
- toldyouso29 ... Never heard or seen anyone get pulled over or cause an accident because took a toke or two.
- Then your world is quite small. I have buried several friends and attended funerals for a few more (mostly motorcycle enthusiasts) who managed to die while racing or driving high on weed. I also know people in accidents who have been 'assisted by others' to get rid of weed evidence before the police got to the accident scene--of course this was before all the fancy tests that now can tell what substance a person was abusing--but back in the day--they just asked people if they were holding or had some reefer on them--if they were coherent and said yes--it was removed so that they would not go to jail as well as to the hospital.
- Its all right,,,,we won't have to worry about DUI'S too much longer,,,,,we will all be forced into public transportation ....before long it will be way too expensive for average Americans to drive,,,,,the cost of maintaining a car will be out of reach for most people,,,,,,,,Legalization of marijuana has way more benefits than negatives.Besides the lies spread over the decades are proving false,,,,marijuana is not the killer weed that it has been advertised to be by our government. The damage BOTH parties have inflicted upon the people are far greater damage than marijuana could EVER do.At least if it were legalized the country would have new jobs and new industry to revive the economy.Not to mention stopping the insanity of jailing non violent people for smoking something that GOD gave us.
- You've obviously never been in a car with anyone driving on marijuana. You'll be creeping along at thirty and thinking it's light speed.
- Here's the thing, fleabag:
70% of cartels' profits are made right here in the United States selling... guess what? Marijuana!
It is a KNOWN FACT that Tobacco and Alcohol are harder to get than marijuana due to their legal, regulated and controlled status. The "We Card" system has proven vital to limiting youths' access to tobacco and alcohol. No such system is available for marijuana... that's right. Because it's ILLEGAL.
If people were driving high on the road, they'd be doing so already. It's not as if all the marijuana in the world is locked in some secret lab out there and we're debating letting it loose. It already IS loose. THAT'S the problem. But if we take it out of the hands of criminals, regulate it so that we have clean marijuana, tax it so that the local, state and federal government can make money and most importantly, provide restrictions as to age and where marijuana can be used (like alcohol has), THEN and only THEN do we have an adequate system.
One final point: The California Supreme Court recently ruled that breathalyser tests didn't offer nearly enough evidence to be considered as evidence that someone was road-impaired. Therefore, current field sobriety tests are undergoing rigorous re-examination to make sure that we can catch people who shouldn't be on the road. Field sobriety tests that will catch those people driving high.
- Furthermore,
Banning something because people might abuse it is a ridiculous and absurd notion. Should we ban TV's? Video Games? Pop? Junk Food? Caffeine? Energy Drinks?
Heh. Water?! Yeah, there was a "Wee for a Wii" contest that some mother died from because she drank too much water. So since she abused water, we should obviously ban it, right?!
- Darlin' you've been driving on the same road as folks that smoke pot since you started driving.... duh!!!
- Holland provides moderate cannabis to customers for their pleasure. The country made the right decision against psychosis-inducing mushrooms. Also, hashish is not a wise product to buy in the street. It is isomized with strong narcotics like PCP. America should liberalize cannabis laws for this reason. Plant with an average amount of THC is perfectly legal. States could decriminalize to promote use of healthy herb. If not, buyers who purchase high THC smoke develop symptoms of paranoia and testicular cancer.
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- Oh pffffffffffffffffft, what the United States should do is impose a fine of about $3,000 for the idiot tokers who can't face reality, and not send them to jail...
That way they could make HUGE amounts of money without the expense of housing the brain dead idiots...
You wanna toke up? Fine....pay the fine! We can handle that...
Just keep your plant out of my neighborhood and don't put it in front of my kids...because it's a shooting offense as far as I'm concerned. If you want to stay safe...keep your plant for your own idiot kids...mine are going to grow up to be responsible individuals who don't need a prop to face reality.
- Stop talking about killing people an enough of your sissy warnings I can tell your a sissy little pinko so unless u want to meet at cooks in so.orange county look it up dead meat!
- I lived in Holland and my hubby is Dutch. Holland does NOT provide moderate cannabis use for anyone (as the article states) people procure it on their own--what Holland does is look the other way while those who procure it provide a little for their customers--but since obtaining it for sale is still illegal--it is all done with a wink.
- btw--they are slowly closing down the red light district in Amsterdam, this is because the area is the drug hangout as well as the erotic district but is surrounded on all sides by canals and multimillion dollar apartments. The people who actually live in that area are some of the richest in Holland--they are sick and tired of rubbing elbows with the poor, sex addicted and vagabond types that continually make a pilgrimage from Europe and North America to their neighborhoods--so it is they who are pushing for closure.
There used to be Prostitute brothels and sex toy emporiums in 4 to 6 city blocks--now, there are few "houses" and even the sex stores are down to maybe 1 city block (if they were all lined up in a row which they are not) and in between some of those shops or above those shops are actual residences where either prostitutes or others live.
Besides, the rich would love to appropriate those buildings for residences instead of have tourists there--it is a fight between one of HOlland's biggest draws and the bourgies.
- IThoughtItWasFunnyNOPE: First, fine all the drunks and smokers who can't handle reality. A shooting offense? Can you be any more over the top?
- IThoughtItWasFunnyNOPE:
You are so far from a true American, you may as well have been on trial at Nuremberg (if you even have a clue what that means). What else do you consider a shooting offense? You macho creeps need to be eradicated.
- IThoughtItWasFunnyNOPE:
You are so far from a true American, you may as well have been on trial at Nuremberg (if you even have a clue what that means). What else do you consider a shooting offense? You macho creeps need to be eradicated. by elpaulito
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that laaaaaaaaaast sentence made me laugh. i hope you were funnin'..if not...oh well.
hippo
- "...The difference between the words "addictive and habit forming is one of semantics not degrees...."
Baloney. An addition is a specific medical condition. Changes to body cells and systems are measurable and can be shown in blood and cell analysis. "habit forming" is NOT a medical condition it is purely psychological. No changes to body systems or cells are measurable or detectible.
If you take someone who smokes pot and put him through a battery of tests you will find that other than smoke residue in his lungs (which is no different than living in a dusty environment) and THC in his cells, that his body systems do not have any other evidence when he isn't smoking pot that he smokes. By contrast with narcotics, nicotine, alcohol, & caffine, there are chemical changes that take place in the body, that become more pronounced after long exposure.
I have seen plenty of republicans out there who have very obvious personality changes when they do not get their daily fix of Lush Limpaw on the radio, by all criteria, they are absolutely psychologically addicted to his radio show. They are in the same boat as your psychologically addicted potheads. Shall we arrest them and put them in jail? By your logic we should.
- Wow ...IThoughtItWasFunnyNOPE..... I'm amazed that you already KNOW your kids are going to grow up to be "responsible citizens who don't need a prop to face reality " , thats just wishful thinking . Your kids are going to have their own path in life , one that YOU cannot change with all your narrow-mindedness . You sound like the kind of person who would drive a kid to try almost anything to not be like you . Even smoking the God-given PLANT you call evil.
- IThoughtItWasFunnyNOPE: "Just keep your plant out of my neighborhood and don't put it in front of my kids...because it's a shooting offense as far as I'm concerned. If you want to stay safe...keep your plant for your own idiot kids...mine are going to grow up to be responsible individuals who don't need a prop to face reality."
See here's the thing, IThoughtItWasFunnyNOPE, you've actually nothing whatever to say about what goes on in your neighborhood beyond your own yard. It seems you're the one who could use a dose of reality.
Shooting offense indeed! You're the kind that gives a measure of credibility to the gun-control crowd. Stop and think about that, idiot. You just shot yourself in the foot with that one.
- Oh pffffffffffffffffft, what the United States should do is impose a fine of about $3,000 for the idiot tokers who can't face reality, and not send them to jail...
How gold pays for 
