Comments on: Club That Ousted Blacks May Let Them In

But State Agency, U.S. Senator Threaten Civil Rights Investigation of Overwhelmingly White Pa. Swim Club

[gramto8]

Once they accepted the money for those kids to become members, YES, it was illegal to harass them for being of a different ethnicity. Harassment can take many forms, including the verbiage and actions mentioned in this case.

[toldyouso29]

What you are forgetting is the circumstances--the right to freely associate flies out of the window and is dictated to by state and federal laws when any organization enters into transactional services with the public. When they do that, they are held to the same standard/laws and rules as everyone else.

This means the club has the right to exclude blacks as long as they do not take public money OR money from the public--the minute that is done and the transaction includes a minority; then the laws applying to discrimination and other civil issues apply.

This is why members of Congress asked for the investigation--because once they entered into an agreement, their behavior and conduct was governed by the state and country's rules in the matter at large and not by their personal rules.

[gramto8]

if you open your pool to the public for money--then "TRAIN" your members to have manners and keep their ugliness in check or get sued.

by toldyouso29 July 12, 2009 9:41 PM PDT

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we were to a point in our country's history that no one HAD to 'train' anyone to be non-racist? The way things are going, I don't picture us getting there anytime in the next three centuries.

[toldyouso29]

You don't have to "allow" racism. It is inevitable. It is where the weak, confused and economically threatened lash out at anyone or anything different that they fear they must now compete with--the easiest way to single out people to hate is by differences. Then the first group whines about the second group who whines about the first and maybe a 3rd group who whines about the 2nd and 1st group until there are more whiners and hating going on than solutions and compromise.

When you dissect the socioeconomic strata of racists, you find them invariably to have been from the lower eschelons of society who have taken their hatred and mistrust and prejudices with them, no matter how far they have advanced later economically. In other words--you see a racist--you see the dregs of any race--hoping to deflect from their own fears and deficiencies by continually pointing out the differences and problems in others and blaming them for what is wrong in their own world/lives.

[toldyouso29]

Actually this is not true. The KKK was purported to have originated in Indiana--that is in the midwest and parts of rural America no matter where you are can be very, very racist. The South has been criticized due to their actions during the Civil Rights era, but in large swaths of the north, there have been heinous racist crimes with blacks and others being lynched. Four states with horrendous records of racism are Texas, W. Virginia, Pennsylvania and Indiana.

There have been at least 2 dragging deaths of black men behind pick up trucks in Texas within the past few years. Indiana was notorious for hangings (like the famous hanging of blacks that were depicted in Life Magazine --Marion, Indiana) and the Klan routinely holds court there.

Two incidences stand out in my mind about racism and the "North"

A sign hanging on a gasoline pump in W. Virginia--in 1978--"No ni66er restrooms"

A sign on a BILLBOARD in West TerreHaute, IN 1979--"Ni66er don't let us catch you over here when the sun goes down"

I have traveled all over the US and can say that it appears Southerners are more comfortable with and can live side by side with minorities with far more grace than many in the North. The accusation that the South is more racist has to do with a certain point in time and now the stereotyping--but in all honesty, there appears to be far more racism of a far more overt and ugly nature in the North--esp the midwest or small Northern towns. Kansas is rife with racism--even among the teenagers.

[toldyouso29]

NO--that as not a police state. In a policed state the ordinary citizen does not run wild and mobs do not rule--in a police state, it is the government and the military and police doing all the killing while the citizens either spy for them and lie for them or keep their heads down and hope that they are not noticed.

The civil rights era was mob rule--plain and simple. Chaos and mayhem condoned by and encouraged by the state--but acted on and/or excused by both state and ordinary citizens.

[willcad]

Let's not immediately jump to the conclusion that just because one group is white, and the other is not, that the motivation behind the cancellation of membership was racial, wholely racial, and nothing but racial.

Some of the kids reported hearing racial remarks at the pool from other members. But did the kids make any racial remarks themselves?

Some of the members pulled their own kids from the pool when the 65 minority kids jumped in. But was it because they were minority kids, or were the minority kids being loud, disruptive, and intimidating towards the members' kids?

The Creative Steps' Day Camp had its membership revoked and its dues refunded. But was it because the camp is mostly made up of minority kids, or was it due to the kids' behavior at the pool?

What was the OFFICIAL reason given for the cancellation of the day camp's membership? And was that official reason completely valid, or easily verified as being invalid?

I'll let the investigation proceed and I won't automatically assume that a dispute between two groups of people who happen to be different races MUST be racially motivated.

[toldyouso29]

Some of the kids reported hearing racial remarks at the pool from other members. But did the kids make any racial remarks themselves?

Some of the members pulled their own kids from the pool when the 65 minority kids jumped in. But was it because they were minority kids, or were the minority kids being loud, disruptive, and intimidating towards the members' kids?


Have you actually read the article and been following the story? Even the director of the club and members of the club have affirmed that the kids behaved themselves admirably and were very polite and did not cause trouble. REading comprehension. It's a beautiful thing--esp since most cases of bigotry and racism are due to "not knowing" better known as IGNORANCE. lol

[skyk-2009]

No because that is NOT the law and NO club or business for that matter should be above the Law.

[amateurradio]

What people seem to be losing sight of is that this is a private club. They do have that fabled "right of association" (see the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution). Their behavior might be idiotic, absurd or bigoted - but it isn't illegal.

[toldyouso29]

What you are forgetting is the circumstances--the right to freely associate flies out of the window and is dictated to by state and federal laws when any organization enters into transactional services with the public. When they do that, they are held to the same standard/laws and rules as everyone else.

This means the club has the right to exclude blacks as long as they do not take public money OR money from the public--the minute that is done and the transaction includes a minority; then the laws applying to discrimination and other civil issues apply.

This is why members of Congress asked for the investigation--because once they entered into an agreement, their behavior and conduct was governed by the state and country's rules in the matter at large and not by their personal rules.

[gramto8]

Once they accepted the money for those kids to become members, YES, it was illegal to harass them for being of a different ethnicity. Harassment can take many forms, including the verbiage and actions mentioned in this case.

[woodstiger38]

the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act prohibits racial discrimination in "public accommodations" like "swimming pools" unless those entities are "distinctly private." Odds are, the Valley Swim club is not "distinctly private" because the PHRA and the case law imply "distinctly private" applies only to bona fide fraternal organizations that do not let nonmembers use their facilities at all, not the simple paid-your-membership-dues-and-swim system the Valley Swim Club used.
How The Valley Swim Club Racial Discrimination Lawsuit Will Go Down
http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2009/07/articles/litigation/news/how-the-valley-swim-club-racial-discrimination-lawsuit-will-go-down/

[skyk-2009]

No but the South has SO MUCH more than everyone else... what was it? I believe it wasn't more than 6 months ago that the SPLC had a trial against the Klan and two of their leaders in Kentucky? LOL Oh no, when it comes to Racism NO other part of the Country can hold them a light.