Comments on: Court Rules For Firefighters In Ricci Case

Whites Rejected For Promotion Win; Decision Reverses An Appeals Court Ruling By Sotomayor

[IrishWench01]

Are you saying that institutions are keeping them out? That would seem odd considering they have so much access to scholarships and grants just by virtue of their ethnicity. I certainly don't see a shortage of minorities at the colleges.
Why is it necessary to recruit them? They have the same information in High School concerning colleges, college prep, testing, entrance exams and anything else related as all of the other students.

[gravyboat3000]

I didn't know Chrisina Ricci wanted to be a Firefighter.

[IrishWench01]

Hey Gravy :-)

[cbsantispin]

A case in point, major colleges won the battle to stop recruiting and reserving spots for minorities based on Quotas and Affirmative Action, colleges argued that they could achieve racial balance on their own without Affirmative Action. A few years after Quotas and Affirmative Action was discontinued in colleges, minority enrollment in all major colleges was close to zero, proving Affirmative Action was necessary.

[IrishWench01]

Maybe the Army should catch up to the Air Force. I carried all my stuff as did all the other females.

[IrishWench01]

""The final point is, if Whites are permitted better access to better educational institutions and thus achieve a better grade and more acceptance in the job market and African Americans are denied that same access resulting in a perceived lower educational standard, is it fair for Whites to argue being better qualified when non-Whites are denied the same opportunity? ""

Where and How are Whites permitted better access to educational institutions?

[cbsantispin]

A case in point, major colleges won the battle to stop recruiting and reserving spots for minorities based on Quotas and Affirmative Action, colleges argued that they could achieve racial balance on their own without Affirmative Action. A few years after Quotas and Affirmative Action was discontinued in colleges, minority enrollment in all major colleges was close to zero, proving Affirmative Action was necessary.

[IrishWench01]

Are you saying that institutions are keeping them out? That would seem odd considering they have so much access to scholarships and grants just by virtue of their ethnicity. I certainly don't see a shortage of minorities at the colleges.
Why is it necessary to recruit them? They have the same information in High School concerning colleges, college prep, testing, entrance exams and anything else related as all of the other students.

[cbsantispin]

If you look at and focus on the goals and the results, does it really matter who is keeping non-Whites out? If the goal of non-White participation is 10% and the result is 2%, there is a problem and 10% is nothing is the bigger scheme of things. But the knife cuts both ways, if 12% of minorities qualify, the college may reduce it to 10% claiming to have met their Quota, so Affirmative Action and Quotas and only one thing, "BAD", but until they are no longer needed, they are a necessary evil based on the current statistics. The Supreme Court was wrong in the Ricci decision and seems to have made their ruling based on Politics and Sotomayor's nomination, Sotomayor ruled based on the Law, the Supreme Court in overturning Sotomayor's decision actually changed the Law on the fly. Sotomayor's decision was correct at the time since it considered other legal factors than just a "Score".

[IrishWench01]

""The Supreme Court was wrong in the Ricci decision and seems to have made their ruling based on Politics and Sotomayor's nomination, Sotomayor ruled based on the Law, the Supreme Court in overturning Sotomayor's decision actually changed the Law on the fly. Sotomayor's decision was correct at the time since it considered other legal factors than just a "Score".""

I won't say that I understand it all, but based on what I have read (outside of this forum) I think the Supreme Court made a just decision. If the test was a crucial componant to the promotion or hiring and it was not deemed to be skewed (and I would love to know how that works anyway)then the results should not have been scrapped and eligible applicants been made ineligible because they were White and not enough Non-Whites qualified.
I have no objection to people of any circumstance and ethnicity being given a level playing field and even a hand up, but not at the exclusion and suppression of others who are equally deserving and qualified. Particularly if the reason is that they are of a certain ethnicity. That does not right a wrong or repair an inequity. That just perpetuates more division and resentment.

[cbsantispin]

I agree.

[cbsantispin]

It's not always about the best score! The best score is only a part of the story, no where is this more evident than in college sports. In following college sports reviewing the Standings, I often notice college sports teams with perfect records like 18 wins and no losses and are ranked in 3rd place and teams with 2 losses, 16 wins and 2 losses, ranked in 1st place over the team with a perfect record at 18-0, I often question, why is that, based on the record or score, shouldn't the team with a perfect record at 18-0 be in first place automatically over the team at 16-2? The answer is NO! College sports take other criteria into consideration, not just the score, for example, how did the team with the perfect 18-0 achieve that score? Did they play weaker competition? Did they have an unfair schedule advantage? Did they cheat and recruit players outside permitted rules? The point is, other factors than just a score are considered. The same is true with the complexities involving Affirmative Action. Affirmative Actions goals are in the right place but those goals are a nightmare to implement without ruffling feathers and stepping on someones toes. Affirmative Action tries to achieve the same results college sports tries to achieve, looking at other factors than just the final score. The U.S. Congress recently officially apologized to African Americans for Slavery. The final point is, if Whites are permitted better access to better educational institutions and thus achieve a better grade and more acceptance in the job market and African Americans are denied that same access resulting in a perceived lower educational standard, is it fair for Whites to argue being better qualified when non-Whites are denied the same opportunity? The arguments against Affirmative Action and Quotas are valid, personally I dislike them, but I also dislike the denial of racism that makes these tools a necessity. America is not there yet, in certain circumstances Affirmative Action still has a place. Once again, it boils down to the lesser evil.

[wtcmedic911]

perhaps now we can have firefighters, police, navy grads that are based on earned qualifications and not because they are a certain color. so those of you that are too lazy or stupid to work for the job its time to man-up and deserve it based on your skills. next if we can get the same standard for woman firefighters/medics that would be nice. i hate having a partner that cannot lift but got the job because of her sex, sexuality etc. when in fire or police you need people that can get the job done in a hurry.
reminds me of 1993 when i went threw boot camp at ft. jackson. we carried FULL PACKS TO THE RANGE. "molly" carried herself to the range as the truck carried all the females gear. at least from what i understand the marines all carry and work as one.

[IrishWench01]

Maybe the Army should catch up to the Air Force. I carried all my stuff as did all the other females.

[Bayou123]

Finally justice has been shown to the whites. This is a first that I've ever known of. Apparently the whites and two Hispanics had the ability to pass the test. If the blacks were qualified then they would have passed the test. Discrimination is a douple edged sword. This government forgets that.

[tiredofthebs]

Finally ..... a decision based on LAW, not PUBLIC OPINION. I'm BLACK and I APPLAUD this ruling. In this day and age, what factors really keep us from achieving the same academically as whites?! I love my black people to death, but we have been usin' that racist card too long.

[democracy1]

"Other than Ricci, Judge Sotomayor has decided 96 race-related cases while on the court of appeals.

Of the 96 cases, Judge Sotomayor and the panel rejected the claim of discrimination roughly 78 times and agreed with the claim of discrimination 10 times; the remaining 8 involved other kinds of claims or dispositions. Of the 10 cases favoring claims of discrimination, 9 were unanimous. (Many, by the way, were procedural victories rather than judgments that discrimination had occurred.) Of those 9, in 7, the unanimous panel included at least one Republican-appointed judge. In the one divided panel opinion, the dissent's point dealt only with the technical question of whether the criminal defendant in that case had forfeited his challenge to the jury selection in his case. So Judge Sotomayor rejected discrimination-related claims by a margin of roughly 8 to 1."

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/judge-sotomayor-and-race-results-from-the-full-data-set/

[california64]

Sotomayor, if confirmed to the Supreme Court will be the worst justice selected since Clarence Thomas. Today, we saw what "reverse discrimination" and "quotas" looks like with the Ricci case. Nominating and confirming candidates like Thomas and Sotomayor is the same "qouta" issue.

[credibility2]

The Supreme Court's decision was the right one. That Sotomayor is a racist is a given; this wasn't the first time that she's ruled against non-blacks. This is her left-wing agenda. That Obama nominated her makes him complicit.

[skyk-2009]

LOL Oh how true... they are getting more weird by the day that is for sure! i don't know, maybe they are living on another planet and visit us just every once in awhile. They really can't figure out that the Nation has changed and people only laugh at them now. LOL

[dennisall77]

They didn't overturn Sotomayor, they overturned the LAW. The court she was on did not have the RIGHT to change the law. She is STILL going to be a great Justice. I just wish moron Thomas w.. .in other words... a moronould retire. He never EVER asks questions during procedings... he already has his mind made up.. NOT a sign of an inquisitive mind! (Same as Bush!)... in other words, a moron... but worst of all is Scalia.. he is just basically evil..

[gravyboat3000]

You can ***** and moan all you want, this will not affect her confermation.

As an appeals court Judge, she can ONLY use the written law, she can't change it. That's for the SC.

And how did she belittle Hispanic males?

[pepperwood2]

CBS News legal analyst Andrew Cohen notes that "It's an embarrassment for Sotomayor, for sure. She's just been reversed on appeal and no judge ever wants that to happen.

Yes but we have to keep in mind that BO was the one who rushed to judgment and wanted everyone else too without reading or gathering the facts.

Mrs Sonogram also said she was misquoted when she belittled the Hispanic males. Also that she no longer belongs to her all woman elite club. Like BO shes wants to make sure that she has taken the proper steps so that her Elite Arrogant Attitude towards Our Common Everyday Heroes won't be discovered AGAIN or Again or again or......... So Sad! That these Elite think they should get away with trashing Mr. & Mrs. America. Business as Usual!

[gravyboat3000]

You can ***** and moan all you want, this will not affect her confermation.

As an appeals court Judge, she can ONLY use the written law, she can't change it. That's for the SC.

And how did she belittle Hispanic males?

[tautomer]

Right. That's why blacks, hispanics, and other minority groups vote for the democrats.
_______________________________________________________________

Those groups vote for Dems because they believe Dems will favor them. Favoring any group over any other is by definition racist. I'm surprised you don't realize that.

[tautomer]

It doesn't mean that the exam is skewed at all. Most likely it means that the minority candidates were admitted to the department in the first place as "affirmative action appointees" never having had to attain the same standard as the other firefighters. In other words the adverse selection likely took place earlier in their careers.

Similar effects are seen in colleges that admit affirmative action students then find that they fail at a greater rate than students who earned admission honestly.

The minority guys who would have been competitive on the Fire Department Exams were all off at Harvard due to affirmative action. The only way out of this dilemma is to treat everyone equally from the start. All affirmative action does is lift everyone involved to their level of incompetence, for which they suffer. These failed candidates might have been very successful as Walmart aisle managers. Instead they were placed into unrealistic situations in which they failed.

Qualified people will always find acceptance without government mandates. Thank God these guys weren't affirmative action heart surgeons!!!

[Walking_Talking_GOO]

I?m so glad that the Supreme Court of the United States of America came to this conclusion because; it was the right thing to do.

So now, I?m going to offer you dummy liberals to comment on my fictitious (politically correct FREE) Supreme Court of the United States of America (which I am a member of) that will offer a No-BS view of my opinion on this same matter, that I am about to judge. Here is my ruling:

Ricci, et al. v. DeStefano, et al. (07-1428 and 08-328).



Justice ?Walking_Talking_GOO (Conservative justice appointed) rendering in favor:

Without citing previous cases where race is an issue, it is of my most coherent thought processes in regards to cases that have specifically dealt with race in this country, in contrast of what this nations ?Race Hustlers? want you to believe in, that the most qualified personnel were originally selected for advancement based on their individual achievements due to their self motivating, hard working, God given abilities.

To disqualify an individual based on the pre-text of ?fairness?, and to indoctrinate into law an appeasement tactic to minorities known as ?Affirmative Action?, which is based on nothing more than offering society a race quota established by inept politicians crumbling under the pressure of ?Fearing that blacks ? and other minorities- will riot in the streets,? is in and of itself, a tragedy of the human spirit.

Furthermore, the same inept politicians that allow this charade of fairness to continue, undermines not only the security of this great country, but directly puts into jeopardy the very fabric that has held this great country, above all other country?s, together for the last 233 years.

Henceforth, and now that the American people have elected its first black President, it is my opinion while presiding on this court, that all ?Affirmative Action? policies be banned for the betterment of this country.

[hungry1968-15]

by picklepants7 June 29, 2009 1:58 PM PDT
sotomayor has now been proved a racist, being a dem, this is par for the course.







Right. That's why blacks, hispanics, and other minority groups vote for the democrats.

Because the democrats are racists.

Brilliant post, moron.

[tautomer]

Right. That's why blacks, hispanics, and other minority groups vote for the democrats.
_______________________________________________________________

Those groups vote for Dems because they believe Dems will favor them. Favoring any group over any other is by definition racist. I'm surprised you don't realize that.