Comments on: Von Brunn Charged In Holocaust Museum Slay

88-Year-Old White Supremacist Faces Murder Charges After Allegedly Shooting Security Guard

[tmittelstaed]

"...Rape is an act of war. It is meant to humiliate the other. Many white men during this time raped black women because it made black men feel powerless. Nothing more...."

People do not do widespread raping of animals so if your going to call it rape that throws the subhuman argument out the window. Slavery was not war, either.

"...Nothing made sense during this time...."---Posted by whatithink-2009

Nonsense. It only makes no sense to you because you cannot bring yourself to believe that ordinary, regular people will make an economic decision that brings harm to other people, knowing full well that it brings harm to other people. if you could bring yourself to believe that, slavery makes perfect sense - as does buying gasoline, or a diamond wedding ring (look up blood diamonds, sierra leone child labor, etc. to see what I mean)

[Audrey_Dern]

I feel that people should just leave others alone. Just because one thinks and feels differently than you do....does not make them wrong. What a much nicer world it would be if this were so. As long as soneone is not hurting me or the ones I love....I say let them be......I know this sounds like a "simple" solution, but, it really is that simple!

[au_fait]

I know that a lot has changed in the big cities in the South even in the last 40 years, but unfortunately it seems to have not yet seeped out into the smaller towns down there. I'm not forgetting that Florida queered the 2000 election - that there was a perfect microcosm of the South - the progressives in the big cities went for Gore, the retrogrades went for Bush and the state split evenly. You still have another couple of generations of work to do, methinks.
Posted by tmittelstaed at

So one again, there is a hit on the south, but it was one of your biggots in the north that made today's front page. Get over things as you have just as much hate and racism in the north (been there and have seen it). No one will ever admit it though. Before someone says something about this comment and republicans, you will be wrong by making that assumption.

[whatithink-2009]

"Soldiers have a vested interest in viewing the enemy as less than human, it allows them to do what they have to do to stay alive.
Posted by 6591Hou at 2:22 PM : Jun 11, 2009 "


I agree with you on much of this post.

I would only add that slavery is war. It's war in a different form. The slaveholders had a vested interest in viewing the slaves as less than human as well. It allowed them to do what they had to do and still think they would go to heaven.

[tmittelstaed]

"... because it was a government ran systematic program with the sole intent of killing as many Jews as possible in the shortest amount of time...."

The Nazi incursion into Russia was a government run systematic program with the sole intent of killing as many Russians as possible in the shortest amount of time.

"...This was a government that devoted itself to the total extermination of a religious group..."--- Posted by 659Hou

False, Hitler also went after gypies, homos, etc. etc. Also, Hitler wasn't stupid. He knew that he would never be able to touch the Jews in America, so that no matter how many Jews he killed in Germany he wouldn't get anywhere near exterminating the entire race.

Discussing the Holocaust today while ignoring Israel is stupid. Keep in mind the central justification used to create the State of Israel was the Holocaust. That is why Israel spends so much money trying to keep the Holocaust wound scratched raw and open.

In another 20 years or so, every last person in any way responsible for the Holocaust - from the instigators to the simple army soldiers ordered with rounding them up - will be dead of old age. But do you think that Israel will allow the Holocaust to be slid into the history books alongside all of the rest of the atrocities in history? Heck no. They will be trying to get people who were born 20 years after the last concentration camp was closed to feel guilty for the sins of their grandfathers. And do you think they will be doing this because Israel is such a champion of human rights? As exemplified by their treatment of the Palestinians? Heck no - it will be done for selfish reasons to continually justify special treatment from the world.

Israel wants to hold the rest of the world up to exemplary human rights standards so they keep rubbing our noses in the Holocaust. They claim they never want to see another concentration camp. Meanwhile their treatment of the Palestinians is atrocious, and they keep the Palestinians in their own form of concentration camps in Israel.

[whatithink-2009]

Sorry for the multiple posts.

[au_fait]

You have to love the censorship of CBS. I see they have pulled two of my comments as well as senseless others. F CBS!

[whatithink-2009]

"But the lines about blacks being subhuman or needing to be taken care of was something that slaveholding whites told to other non-slaveholding whites, as an excuse. It's not something they believed themselves.
Posted by tmittelstaed at 2:23 PM : Jun 11, 2009 "


I agree with your post here. Internally I am sure they knew. Otherwise, why go to so much effort to prevent people from reading if you didn't think they had a brain anyway.

[whatithink-2009]

"That actually isn't true. The reason why is that WIDESPREAD mating between whites and blacks took place during slavery. People do not s c r e w animals (well, most people don't) so if the average person in the South really did believe the blacks were less than human they wouldn't be sticking their tally wackers in the black women so much.
Posted by tmittelstaed at 2:23 PM : Jun 11, 2009"


Rape is an act of war. It is meant to humiliate the other. Many white men during this time raped black women because it made black men feel powerless. Nothing more.

Nothing made sense during this time. Why have someone cook for you and take care of your children but not allow them to sit at a counter or drink from the same fountain? This meant the person was clean enough to prepare your food, but not cle

[whatithink-2009]

"That actually isn't true. The reason why is that WIDESPREAD mating between whites and blacks took place during slavery. People do not s c r e w animals (well, most people don't) so if the average person in the South really did believe the blacks were less than human they wouldn't be sticking their tally wackers in the black women so much.
Posted by tmittelstaed at 2:23 PM : Jun 11, 2009"


Rape is an act of war. It is meant to humiliate the other. Many white men during this time raped black women because it made black men feel powerless. Nothing more.

Nothing made sense during this time. Why have someone cook for you and take care of your children but not allow them to sit at a counter or drink from the same fountain? This meant the person was clean enough to prepare your food, but not cle

[whatithink-2009]

"That actually isn't true. The reason why is that WIDESPREAD mating between whites and blacks took place during slavery. People do not s c r e w animals (well, most people don't) so if the average person in the South really did believe the blacks were less than human they wouldn't be sticking their tally wackers in the black women so much.
Posted by tmittelstaed at 2:23 PM : Jun 11, 2009"


Rape is an act of war. It is meant to humiliate the other. Many white men during this time raped black women because it made black men feel powerless. Nothing more.

Nothing made sense during this time. Why have someone cook for you and take care of your children but not allow them to sit at a counter or drink from the same fountain? This meant the person was clean enough to prepare your food, but not cle

[tmittelstaed]

"...The economic gain trumped whatever reservations the people may have felt about the institution...."--- Posted by 6591Hou

That is as true a statement today as it was then. Look at all the people arguing against the moves to get the US weaned off foreign oil now that the price of gas has fallen - they don't want to pay higher gas taxes, they don't want to prop up Chrylser and GM and force them to make small fuel-efficient cars, they don't want to pay more money for the first generation electric vehicles - because for a few short years, the price of gas will be a little bit lower and it will be a bit cheaper to drive their existing gas-guzzler SUV than a bit more expensive fuel-efficient hybrid, or bit more expensive than that, electric car.

then 5 years from now the gas price will be through the roof again and these same people will be screaming for hybrids and electric card, p i s s e d as h e l l that none of our automakers are building them.

[6591Hou]

tmittelstaed
==============
I think the reason the Holocaust has the status it does is not because more people died in the concentration camps than anywhere else, it was because it was a government ran systematic program with the sole intent of killing as many Jews as possible in the shortest amount of time.
This was a government that devoted itself to the total extermination of a religious group, with all of the resources at it's disposal, regardless of the nationality of the members of that religious group.
I know that a lot of people would disagree with me but as bad as the various Native American tribes were victimized and abused by the various American administrations, they were not rounded up from everywhere they lived, taken to camps, and executed in a factory-like setting as a specific government program. There is no evidence that the government ever kept tally books of how many members of what tribe were killed per day, and memos directing people to work harder to kill more - like the Nazis did.

[tmittelstaed]

"...The children of my generation became the local adults of this one, and we have "fought" to not repeat history here by keeping our kids ignorant...."---Posted by yoyoinla

I know that a lot has changed in the big cities in the South even in the last 40 years, but unfortunately it seems to have not yet seeped out into the smaller towns down there. I'm not forgetting that Florida queered the 2000 election - that there was a perfect microcosm of the South - the progressives in the big cities went for Gore, the retrogrades went for Bush and the state split evenly. You still have another couple of generations of work to do, methinks.

[tmittelstaed]

"...I would also add that discrimination against blacks is firmly rooted in slavery. Most people are moral and have a conscious. Slavery would not have been possible if discrimination hadn't preceded it. It took a campaign to make blacks less than human to make it possible for normally moral people with a conscious to allow it to happen...."---Posted by whatithink-2009

That actually isn't true. The reason why is that WIDESPREAD mating between whites and blacks took place during slavery. People do not s c r e w animals (well, most people don't) so if the average person in the South really did believe the blacks were less than human they wouldn't be sticking their tally wackers in the black women so much.

What happened during slavery was that the slaveholding whites knew perfectly well that they were subjugating other people, but they also knew perfectly well that their standard of living was dependent on subjugating these people. They chose to keep their standard of living instead of letting slaves go as they should. The fact is that a lot of slaveholding whites did write into their wills that their slaves would be freed on their death - showing that at least at the end, their conscience was prodding them to do something. But the lines about blacks being subhuman or needing to be taken care of was something that slaveholding whites told to other non-slaveholding whites, as an excuse. It's not something they believed themselves. And the non-slaveholding white Southerners didn't believe it either - but it allowed both sides to get past a socially sticky problem.

it's like when a non-potsmoker is friends with a pot-smoker, the non-smoker visits the smoker and pretends to not see the bong on the mantle, or pretends the pot smoker is just smoking for medical reasons or some such. It's just a white lie that allows people to get past a socially sticky situation.

This is probably the worst part of slavery, aside from what happens to the slave, of course, is the institutionalizing of hypocrisy. That's why, after all, there's so many Republicans in the South today. They are used to institutionalized hypocrisy, which is why they will claim states should overrule the federal government in one breath, when talking about abortion, then in the next breath claim that federal laws should overrule states rights, when talking about gay marriage. It's also why so many evangelicals are in the South - people who thump the bible preaching Jesus in one breath, then shoot abortion doctors in cold blood, or celebrate such killings, in another breath. Their entire culture has been raised to believe that it's OK to tell people to do as I say, not as I do.

[yoyoinla]

Posted by tmittelstaed

Yes, I wasn't trying to pigeon hole myself into a strictly holocaust conversation. I was just trying to make a point about the south, and some of the "old" southern thinking about race, and teaching the historical truth. White children just weren't taught that where I was raised. That said, they certainly are now. The children of my generation became the local adults of this one, and we have "fought" to not repeat history here by keeping our kids ignorant.

[6591Hou]

I would also add that discriminate against blacks is firmly rooted in slavery. Most people are moral and have a conscious. Slavery would not have been possible if discrimination hadn't preceded it. It took a campaign to make blacks less than human to make it possible for normally moral people with a conscious to allow it to happen.

It's the same way that soldiers are taught not to look at the other side as human during times of war.
Posted by whatithink-2009
=======================
I agree with you on a few philosophic points, I would offer a counterpoint to your assertion that most people are moral and have a conscience and say that most people have been conditioned to not bother other people if they're not being bothered - unless they have an interest at stake such as economic gain or power. Slavery was practiced in the North as well as the South initially, until cultural pressure in the North developed which pushed the practice out. The South almost ended slavery due to the expense and lack of return because cotton was too expensive and labor intensive to be profitable until the development of the cotton gin which made cotton a viable cash crop. The economic gain trumped whatever reservations the people may have felt about the institution.

The attitudes against persons of color was a direct import from the British, naturally since they founded the colonies, who outlawed slavery but carried on an extensive history of discrimination against their largest colony India.

Soldiers have a vested interest in viewing the enemy as less than human, it allows them to do what they have to do to stay alive.

[sean58z]

James Von Brunn trafficked child pornography and advocates for lewd torture against African Americans. Perverts like James belong in prison. This society should not tolerate his racism and extreme sexuality. Von Brunn believes in propaganda and explicit smut. His fascination with Hitler and the Third Reich must stop.

[stickdog3]

I love your rationale whatithink-2009. You're right we're still evolving, I'm somewhat wavering on your assertin that race is more a social construct than a biological one. And your assertion that race and limited Worlds resources are pretty much on point. And that primarily is why we have so much turmoil out here and some people feeling more superior than others.
Again I like the way you think I see in a way you deal in logic and the bottom line, like yours truly, but, I had to throw that history lesson in that I did to get them to open their eyes a litle wider. Thanks for your comments maybe we might wind up as allies against this beast called racism.
Happy Trails

[yoyoinla]

Stick, you seem to have been fortunate enough to have gone to a school where it was appropriate to teach the truth, and the whole truth.

Ironically, it was the white southern children that they felt they needed to shelter. (Especially the girls). We weren't suppose to hear such horrors.

I was in 6th grade the day they decided, with not even an overnight notice, to integrate our schools. They made up some field trip story to the students at the black school, bussed them to our school, and set them down in the "back" of our classroom. They were scared, and the administration didn't even think they, or their parents, had a right to know what they were doing there. It was ridiculous. They were especially freaked out when they realized they weren't sure if they were going to be able to drink water from the fountains, and weren't sure if they could go to the bathroom.