Comments on: In IRS Protest, Pastors Back Candidates

Conservative Legal Group Fighting To Abolish Restrictions On Church Involvement In Politics

[synchrochick]

I couldn''t agree more, mwestorca. In fact, here''s an article on this subject with specific scripture McCain has violated:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1067580/why_christians_should_be_ashamed_to.html?cat=75

[jamesrfitz]

gaelgirli shares the formal language used in original colonial charters. These charters were cloaked in religious terms, but were basically economic documents. The purpose of colonizing America was to exploit its resources. Since people of wealth and breeding did not have to suffer the privations of taming a land for agriculture, a work force was found in religious dissidents. This had the double good forture of ridding Europe of malcontents and giving them a way to occupy themselves to the financial betterment of Europe. Very quickly after these religious sorts had a few years in the sun, the crowns of Europe re-asserted themselves and religious freedom was once again imperiled.

[mwestorca]

As a Christian you cast your vote for the non-Christian McCain (never has been baptized you know), the fly-boy who risked expulsion from the Naval Academy to sneak out and party, the hard-drinking, foul-mouthed, high-stakes gambler. The man who dumped his faithful wife, had an adulterous affair, and, after his divorce, married a rich trophy wife. And because he SAYS he is opposed to abortion, you think he is pro-life? But he wants to solve world problems by killing people instead of talking through problems? And you''ll vote against the man who came from humble circumstances, worked hard, did well in school, rose to the top of his class, dedicated his early working years to helping the poor, is married to one woman, goes home to his family at night and plays a little basketball with friends instead of going to the *** tables in Vegas. Have you ever heard him curse? Have you ever heard of him being drunk in public? Have you ever heard of him running around on his wife? And he made an adult choice to become a Christian, was baptized, and had his children baptized. How can you explain this to God? He''s the one who is your brother-in-Christ, the one who lives a moral life.

[gaelgirll]

Displeased, another public education casualty? Never in the history of America, has anyone been tortured to death for disagreeing with "the church."
Maybe you didn''t get that Maryland, Rhode Island, and Virginia are states in the US. There are 50 (not 57) and I can list more excerpts from the charters. I can also point you to proclamations of Thanksgiving Day, making it a religious holiday, for giving thanks to God (no, children not to the Indians!) for this great country. These proclamations started in the 1600s and continued - right up until and ncluding 2007.

[inketolstoy]

I don''''t support abortion but I have to allow the woman to make that choice for herself.

What kind support do you call this?

[ixoye_02]

It''s time to tax the income of all churches. I''ve long supported the separation of church and state even though I am a practicing Christian. Church leaders are emboldened by their influence over their congregations to influence the voting. But I have begun to see that church leaders are going so far as to extort the votes of the faithful by threatening the denial of communion or other sacraments. If the church wants to get into the game of politics, then it should pay taxes accordingly. But if that doesn''t happen, the faithful have a way of not giving as much when the donation plate skirts by. I know of many of my fellow parishioners who have given less as a result of political activism from the pulpit. If anything, church leaders are complicit to supporting bad leaders in the congress as well as the White House and are eroding any moral leadership the church leaders hope to maintain. Many of the christians I know will vote for candidates who are pro-choice because when it comes to these candidates'' support for the poor and underrepresented, these candidates truly show their compassion. I don''t support abortion but I have to allow the woman to make that choice for herself.

[synchrochick]

To aggiekat2004 who says, "I think ALL churches should have to pay taxes...And...when that law was written, the mega-churches didn''''t even exist. To give them tax exempt status is RIDICULOUS...The spirit of the law is being totally abused by these entities...and paying for these crooks to have their own jets and tour buses...it needs to be stopped."

This comment misses the point of churches which is ministry. The reason churches are tax exempt is because the IRS expects them to do things to benefit the community with that tax money to take the burden off the government.

Of course there are some bad seeds out there, but it''s really unfair to paint all mega churches in such a negative light. Especially if you have no experience with their ministries besides what you''ve heard and seen in the media.

For instance, my church is a mega church. However, our pastor is the most humble man you''d ever want to meet. He''s not out spending millions of dollars on himself or his family. Instead, there are over 80 ministries under his umbrella including Save Africa''s Children. This is where the money goes.

Save Africa''s Children is currently supporting more than 200,000 children who''ve been orphaned due to the AIDS epidemic in Africa. We''ve built orphanages all across the continent and made sure that they are properly staffed and supplied.

If our church was taxed as you suggest, there would be a lot more children dying and uncared for on the streets. I can''t see how this would be a good thing.

[displeased]

.Any questions?!
Posted by gaelgirll

The documents you mention happened during a time when a person would be tortured to death if they disagreed with the church. We''ve outgrown that now.

[gaelgirll]

The Colonial Charter for the Maryland government closed with the requirement that "no interpretation of its contents should be allowed whereby God''s holy and true Christian religion might in any wise suffer."
The Colonial Charter for the Maryland government closed with the requirement that "no interpretation of its contents should be allowed whereby God''s holy and true Christian religion might in any wise suffer."
And the Rhode Island Charter, it directs the civil government to, here are it''s words, "to be in the better capacity to defend themselves in their rights and liberties against all enemies of the Christian faith." According to this charter the original government of Rhode Island was set up to protect the Christian religion.
The April 3rd of 1644 records of the Colony and Plantation of New Haven read, "It is ordered that the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered to Moses . . . be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction, in their proceeding against offenders . . ."
...Any questions?!

[missglo]

I am a Christian. And I hope that the IRS watch this type ministries . Because it sound as if this man, Is Lording over its people. Instead of being a Minister of God. There are a lot of Kooks out there. And they having people doing Crazy things.

[gaelgirll]

and ..Then on November 2nd of 1620, The Charter of Plymouth Council was granted by King James I of England. It stated the purposes of the settlement as authorized by this government document; one purpose was it says; "in the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty."
In November of 1620, the Pilgrims who came here on the ship Mayflower, before leaving the ship, drew up a document to establish their government. It was called, The Mayflower Compact. This document set up their form of government, a Christian government; a government whose purpose in part was to "glorify God and to advance the Christian religion."

[gaelgirll]

hungry1968-1 Wow! You need to learn your country''s history!!No doubt you''re public school educated, which means no history, no civics, and the first wave of the new social engineering on the part of the newly minted Dept of Education and the NEA union. (if that''s your birth year)To start: The first Charter was granted by King James I of England; on April 10th of 1606 for the settlement and possession of Virginia,".. having desires for the furtherance of so noble a work which may, by the providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the glory of His divine Majesty, in the propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God, and may in time bring the infidels and savages, living in those parts, to human civility, and to a settled and quiet government"

[stevex47]

Mixing govt. and religion works great for muslim extremists.

Amazing how similiar the reich wing and terrorist regimes are.

[holalanemeir]

If you want Theocracy, move to Iran.

[navyjimfl]

Churches are a big scam and need to pay their fair share of taxes......I have always heard that being a preacher or priest is better than working for a living.......but they should pay taxes on the billions they bring in....

[vincan-2009]

I hope the IRS is closely watching these republican conservative party operatives. Because that is what these pitiful examples of preachers are. They are bigots and racists and not fit to lead real christians. That is what is wrong with so many churches. They are not for God, they are for republican criminals who cheat and lie.

[superdem]

without god - total and utter chaos ? Then that''s the proof there is no god - we certainly have total and utter chaos now ! HAHAHAHAHAHA

In the natural world there is always order, after a fashion. It is only in the world of men which is divoreced from Nature that chaos reigns. That is why man created god, in an attempt to understand why what we try to do usually fails. The actual answer - that we are ignorant - is not very satisfying.

[gaelgirll]

amrt5016 said: "Once we have proclaimed that the Constitution is the foundation of our society, the most tenuous connection to God, if there is one, is severed and God is no longer relevant."
You don''t understand the relationship; God is the premise upon which the Constitution makes sense - you cannot write law without a morality bounding definition. If you take away the premise, the document makes no sense. Simpler: You divorce and write a decree. If you remove the divorce from the picture, the decree becomes meaningless. The moral boundary we chose was Christianity (glad to see all the history corrections - we really did flee the Anglican Church (not Catholic!) and we came to spread the Gospel of Jesus) We chose it. We built around it, because we believed it, we knew it, we lived it. Inasmuch as liberals and secular humanists are determined to manufacture a totally different Birth of Our Nation, you cannot rewrite history.

Those who are not Christian (or are somehow offended by Christian principles) struggle with references to God, because they may be unable to articulate their own moral compass. When you say "who''s God?", here in America, it is the Christian God. It may not be your God, but our rules and regs come from His law. If you come here with a different God, you are accountable to your own God (always), but to live here, you must abide by our God%u2019s rules

[jtdev1]

Tax them they made a choice make them pay.


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Posted by antoniof123 at 02:38 PM : Sep 29, 2008






My sentiments exactly! Don''t bother taking them to court and wasting tax payer''s money, Just revoke the tax exempt status and be done with it...

Make them prove that they were following the law and not us (irs) prove anything.

Simple solution! then who cares what they preach...

[bobnjersey]

[Without God, morals and principles do not exist. Hence the decline of such for the past few decades in our nation.]
[Posted by StopSocialis at 02:03 PM : Sep 29, 2008]

so, if we just step back in time a bit ... let''s say the 16th century. the church had no issue w/ torturing and, in some cases, killing those who spoke out against the church, practiced anything the church deemed heretical, or they made claims that the earth was not the center of the universe. the church''s highest leaders (including many popes) regularly participated in conspiricies in waging war and killing innocents in the name of religion, power, or conquest.

nearly 70% of the members of the church suffered from syphilis at one point, and homosexuality was rampant throughout europe ... many were self proclaimed adherants to the church''s dogma.

is this where the morals and principles came from ... or are you full of cr@p ... trying to convince everyone that those who are ''faithful'' are somehow better than those who are not?