Comments on: Republicans Defeat Gas Price Relief Bill

Democrats Claimed Releasing 70 Million Barrels Of Oil Would Loosen National Stockpile And Bring Down Prices

[stn_sage]

Posted by dittomom1 at 01:59 AM : Jul 25, 2008
-------------------
I''d point out the following:
1. Disraeli was P.M.of the U.K. during the early Industrial Revolution days. And his concern was how liberalism was going to effect the social order as it pushed for higher wages, child labor laws, health codes, work rules, etc.., all very good and needed things there! Progress IS needed, in every society.

2. If conservatism does champion eternal truths that we have equality in the eyes of God, etc. while guaranteeing no equality of outcome in ability to accumulate wealth on Earth, etc., then it has a responsibility to maintain a non-cruel, Christian treatment toward fellow human beings! Ideals and treatment are NOT mutually exclusive! You cannot
espouse equality in the eyes of God, and then act
cruelly toward your fellow man! To do so, is intellectual dishonesty!

[ihave4rugratshelp]

brian and stn_sage
i must retire for the night--i don''t know what time it is where you are, but here it is way past the time i normally call it a night--thank you both for spirited discussions-good night!

[ihave4rugratshelp]

stn_sage
i think maybe conservatives don''t think they need to present any kind of compelling evidence as it were to defend what they are saying--what they say should be enough

[stn_sage]

Posted by emokev at 01:55 AM : Jul 25, 2008
-----------------
1. I do not believe that being conservative means one does not think, or is incapable of being intellectual, or having great intellectual capacity!

2. The problem here on these boards is: often times conservatives either, cannot or fail to present a compelling argument to support their claims. And when that happens the liberals on this board let them know it!

3. Whether you are liberal or conservative, more times than not, influences how you act toward others and the world you live in. And, there are definite differences. To say one is better than or worse than the other is only one measure of the subject in question.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

brian
one more quick question then i must retire for the night--is obama as wildly popular in the rest of the world as he is portrayed or is it another media snow job--just trying to put this stupid election in its proper perspective.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

just as a quick point of reference--my specialty was not in middle eastern culture or religions--it was in historic and prehistoric archaeology.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

unfortunately, most foreign travelers from this country do not get a cultural primer before they leave these shores--hence the problems that we have overseas at times--truth be told, i don''t think half of the people in this country really care about other cultures--as long as it''s not affecting me why should i care? and people wonder why i quit teaching (i taught anthropology at the college level) and have no desire to go back--there is truly nothing worse than an 18 year old being forced to take an anthro class when they can think of at least 100 other things they would rather be doing--besides i would probably not make enough to justify the expense of childcare to my spouse.

[brianbwb-2009]

"google Hadith please and let me know what you find--i googled and what i found is what i posted about it."
Posted by emokev

I am familiar with it, having spent more than twenty years living among Muslims, and my observation is that the Muslims in no way accept the Hadith as a part of their holy document, they are forbidden to do so.

There are cultures in Indonesia where the ability to recite the Quran is a required contition of the rite of passage into adulthood, but no culture (there are more than 800 here) that I know of requires the Hadith to be included.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

i had forgotten about slick willie interferring in that--once again--why be responsible when someone else will try and get me out of trouble--anybody stupid enough to go to another country and break the law has no right to whine and carry on because they don''t want to accept the punishment--if you can''t do the time, don''t do the crime.

[brianbwb-2009]

"...an american losing their life because of not any crime committed, just because they happen to be american--that will never be anyone''''s fault but the person (or persons) who kill him..." Posted by emokev

I understand your point, but you must realize that events are manipulated to the advantage of those who own the tools of manipulation. When Americans lost their lives, you must understand that they were either tourists, visiting a place where those with a legitimate grievance have no peaceful avenue for redress, or employees of an American firm exploiting the locals (see Nike), or US spies working on behalf of (to them0 a foreign government, against their wishes.

I live in Bali, and am well known throughout all of Indonesia, as is the fact that I am atheist. I have never had a problem walking among even the most conservative segments of the population, as I give respect, and receive it in return.

[brianbwb-2009]

"...an american losing their life because of not any crime committed, just because they happen to be american--that will never be anyone''''s fault but the person (or persons) who kill him..." Posted by emokev

I understand your point, but you must realize that events are manipulated to the advantage of those who own the tools of manipulation. When Americans lost their lives, you must understand that they were either tourists, visiting a place where those with a legitimate grievance have no peaceful avenue for redress, or employees of an American firm exploiting the locals (see Nike), or US spies working on behalf of (to them0 a foreign government, against their wishes.

I live in Bali, and am well known throughout all of Indonesia, as is the fact that I am atheist. I have never had a problem walking among even the most conservative segments of the population, as I give respect, and receive it in return.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

brian,
google Hadith please and let me know what you find--i googled and what i found is what i posted about it.

[brianbwb-2009]

"i''''m going to go check that video in a sec, but did you know that the mexican government is appealing to the world court to stop the execution of a mexican national in texas? and san fran is now in trouble for be a sancuary city and letting a known illegal felon kill a father and his two sons?" Posted by emokev

As I said, each country has it''s own laws, After you see that vid, remember Michael Fay took four light ones, because he was vandalizing cars in the country that has the highest cost of car ownership. He was supposed to get six, but Clinton begged him off. I was opposed to Clinton''s interference, knowing Clinton would not have interceded on my behalf, being a "Black" man. The punk knew he broke the law, he should have paid the price.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

the caning in malaysia is not that much diferent than other forms of punishment used in other countries--remember many consider the us barbaric for using the death penalty, but is it any less barbaric to sever someone''s hand or castrate someone? what this tells me is that 1) apparently caning is not a deterent to crime otherwise this crime would have probably not happened and 2)as far as if an american had committed a crime in malaysia and was given that punishment, there would be all kinds of outcry i''m sure, but i would have to ask myself, would this have happened had they not broke the law? probably not--i take issue with americans being beheaded because they were taken hostage by whichever terrorist group just because they are from this country--if an american breaks the law in another country, well, the only one to blame is himself--an american losing their life because of not any crime committed, just because they happen to be american--that will never be anyone''s fault but the person (or persons) who kill him

[blitzder]

brianbwb-you don''''t know what a "modern conservative is then. "preserve war" are you kidding??? when someone beheads your citizens and blows up innocents are we supposed to "understand"? war has rid the world of many tyrants. it''''s ugly but it will exist as long as there is evil in the world and they come after us because we have to defend ourselves.
Posted by dittomom1 at 02:27 AM : Jul 25, 2008
---------------------------------------------------

I am not Arab or their spokesman, but what I see, hear and read for the last 50 years, is a complete shut out of Arab concerns and complaints, by the American press and the prostrating grovelling neo-con politicians who have caused so much misinformation/misinterpretation of the suffering of Arabs and their views.

The politicians and the media have done great harm to Americans by this shut out. I personally believe, 9/11 could have been prevented had the media correctly informed the public of Arab/muslim events and concerns, someone from the public service personnel would have recognized the plans of the hijackers and pulled the alarms.

[brianbwb-2009]

"it has been altered in later years by differenct clerics but the Hadith is what is used in legal decisions in the Islamic community" Posted by emokev

Again I must dispute. I have for twenty plus years, lived and travelled in the two largest majority Muslim countries, Indonesia, and Malaysia. The Hadith has no place in law in those countries, even the most conservative clerics refuse to recognize it. In fact, there are constitutional clauses prohibiting religious discrimination against any group, with the proviso that all groups may not disparage the other religions.

In Indonesia, for example, Islam cannot disparage Christianity, or vice versa. One reason why Jehovah''s witnesses are not allowed is because of their insistence that God''s real name is Jehovah.

In Singapore, the Islamic mosques are not allowed to use loudspeakers to call to prayer, because of local noise control rules.

Just like in America, the laws exist, but it does take some effort to enforce them, and I would say that while not at all perfect, these two countries do a better job of separating church and state than we do.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

i''m going to go check that video in a sec, but did you know that the mexican government is appealing to the world court to stop the execution of a mexican national in texas? and san fran is now in trouble for be a sancuary city and letting a known illegal felon kill a father and his two sons?

[ihave4rugratshelp]

btw, "watchtower" of the jehovah''s witnesses is a monthly magazine that the watchtower society publishes--usually to try and recruit new jehovah witnesses--jehova witnesses call their bible the bible--they have just taken the liberty of rewriting it to suit their beliefs--as has the book of mormon--and has the catholic bible--you can see this if you compare the table of contents between a king james version or niv bible and the table contents of a st. joseph''s edition.

[brianbwb-2009]

"does the same thing apply here if an illegal alien (or undocumented worker) does something here the locals don''''t like--that whatever the illegal alien (or undocumented worker) meets with is understandable and reasonable, based on your definition of why beheading someone that is american in a foreign land is an understandable and quite possibly acceptable act." Posted by emokev

We either deport, or jail illegals for running afoul of our laws, including capital punishment understandable and reasonable, over their their laws prescribe more severe punishments, their choice, and again understandable, (their culture)even if I might not see it as reasonable, I claim no right to tell them how to run their culture, they do what works for them. They don''t see it as being worth spending excess money on those they consider to be criminals. Thieves are behanded, subversives are beheaded, rapists are castrated. I admit that the rich, just like the US are immune by and large to such laws, but knowing the cultures as I do, I can see the utility of such draconian measures

And yes, I have, for the past 25 years lived in Nederland (Holland), Nigeria, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, China, even Mongolia. Currently I travel between Singapore and Bali.

Btw, google "Malaysian caning video", to see what happens to a rapist in Malaysia, and get back to me re your take on it.

[ihave4rugratshelp]

actually the Hadith is second only to the Qu''ran(spelled it right)--the Hadith talks about the life and deeds of Muhammed--it has been altered in later years by differenct clerics but the Hadith is what is used in legal decisions in the Islamic community