Comments on: White House: No Greenhouse Gas Regulation

Citing Effects On U.S. Economy, Bush Passes Global Warming Problem To Next Administration

[ubrew12]

on_alert247 said: "How is it physically possible to get a 30 year trend of cooling temperatures...yet increased melt "
My take: sea ice is stabilized on its outer edge by increased snowfall there (more moisture evaporated from the tropics falling in the poles). At the same time, sea ice is added to by land ice moving at increased pace onto the sea (land ice is warmer at its base because of geothermal energy, hence is ''more fluid''). Hence, global warming maintains or adds sea ice, rather than subtracting from it.
From your Article:
"They report that the total Antarctic sea ice extent increased by 11,180 sq. km. per year...The authors conclude: "The observed increase in Antarctic sea ice cover is counter to the observed decreases in the Arctic. It is also qualitatively consistent with the counterintuitive prediction of a global atmospheric-ocean model of increasing sea ice around Antarctica with climate warming due to the stabilizing
effects of increased snowfall on the Southern Ocean."

[on_alert247]

Ubrew,

How is it physically possible to get a 30 year trend of cooling temperatures, increasing sea ice and yet increased melt from supposedly less dense snowfall and warming temperatures, at least according to NASA? I remember reading this paper and recognizing that the flaw was in the model to estimate the snowfall accumulation! Come on, not another model output to tell me the continent is melting. Meanwhile there are these results which contradict the report you linked: http://www.agu.org/eos_elec/2008/Tedesco_89_13.html

[ubrew12]

on_alert247 said: "No global warming in Antarctica."
I read your paper (by Taylor) and will grant that ''sea ice extent'' has increased in the last 30 years. Unfortunately, that''s not the same as ice MASS, which is a truer measure of melting. For ice MASS results, check out
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2006-028
which is titled ''NASA Mission Detects Significant Antarctic Ice Mass Loss''. Satellites are used not merely to photo ice from above, but actually measure its mass: and its going down. Also, check out
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NasaNews/2008/2008012326052.html

Just as popcorn snow is less dense than ice, so the snow falling on Antarctica is now less dense than it once was, and is at increasing risk of sliding into the ocean. Remember also that ''sea ice'' is probably already afloat and so wouldn''t impact water levels even if it did melt. The danger is from ice shelves (which I previously posted are disappearing): ice perched over the ocean and at risk of falling into it.

Taylor''s conclusion: "there is more ice, not less, surrounding Antarctica". Maybe more by volume, but not by mass, which is the truer measure of warming. Taylor already knows this and why he would promulgate a lie is his own business, I guess.

[on_alert247]

No global warming in Antarctica.

icecap.us/images/uploads/antarctica_white_paper_final.pdf

[jcr103]

White House: No Greenhouse Gas Regulation

White House: No Brains, Competence, or Accountability

[Sharkdog2000]

Un-freakin-believable. I continue to be amazed by the staggering level of his ignorance. It''s our freakin'' PLANET & our HEALTH, you short-sighted fool. No matter what your opinion on why the climate is changing, it cannot be disputed that it''s happening & we humans are certainly not helping matters. A true leader would look at the expenses & find ways to offset those & encourage change across all sectors. But hey, he''s already destroyed so much of our country, so what''s one more disaster? He can throw billions of dollars into the debacle that is Iraq, but when it comes to our people - no, no...that''s not money we want to spend. We just don''t have time for his grade-school approach to serious problems anymore. It sickens me.

[lambor59]

This dude looks so drunk....my dog barks when it sees this stupid face.

[lambor59]

The only job lost is your job Mr. Bush, get the hell out of office so the people can get our country back on track.

[ubrew12]

Antarctic Ice Researchers are growing concerned over the Wilkins Ice Shelf:
"Wilkins Ice Shelf is the most recent in a long, and growing, list of ice shelves on the Antarctic Peninsula that are responding to the rapid warming that has occurred in this area over the last fifty years," researcher David Vaughan of the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) said. "Current events are showing that we were being too conservative, when we made the prediction in the early 1990s that Wilkins Ice Shelf would be lost within 30 years. The truth is, it is going more quickly than we guessed."

In the past three decades, six Antarctic ice shelves have collapsed completely - Prince Gustav Channel, Larsen Inlet, Larsen A, Larsen B, Wordie, Muller and the Jones Ice Shelf.

This is now a recurrent theme among those who study the Polar effects of Global Warming: ''we were too conservative'' in our estimations. Thats a far cry from the ''doomsday'' label warming deniers have given these researchers, about one of the most dangerous aspects of the Climate Change debacle.

[ubrew12]

The Antarctic ice sheet is losing as much as 36 cubic miles of ice a year. In 2002, Antarctica''s 1,255-square-mile Larsen B ice shelf broke off, broke up, and melted away in just 35 days. Without the buttress of the ice shelf to anchor them and lubricated by floating on an ever increasing sea of meltwater, nearby glaciers are now flowing into the sea eight times faster than before. Since 1974, 5,213 square miles of ice shelves have disintegrated in the Antarctic Peninsula. The continent holds 90% of the world''s ice, and the disappearance of even its smaller West Antarctic ice sheet could raise worldwide sea levels by an estimated 20 feet. One meter of sea level rise in just the lower 48 United States would put about 25,000 square miles under water, with thousands more rendered unarable due to infiltration of seawater into the water table. Ice is more reflective than water - nine times more reflective; ice reflects 80% of incoming solar radiation back into space; blue water absorbs 80% of the sun''s heat. More than 100 million people live on land within one meter of sea level. New York City is 33 feet above sea level, Dublin 29, Boston is 10.