Comments on: Cultist Hand-Picked Children For Loyalty

Officials Say Jeffs Moved Young Members Of Sect Into Seclusion In Tex. To Ensure Obedience

[fibonacci_]

cneron, right on. We fight for rational thinking - religion has done enough damage.

[fibonacci_]

Typical line of a cult leader, including Jesus: "They will say that I am a false prophet."

[denn034]

"it''''s still racism. don''''t make the assumption that the author of 1 cor was not racist, or that a person reading it today isn''''t filtering it through a racist filter so that it appears to be ok."
Posted by cpaide

I accidentally cited the wrong verse but, whatever, you''re free to your view.

[cpaide]

"Texas authorities may have been duped by a fake phone tip into raiding a West Texas ranch occupied by Jeffs followers."

they weren''t duped. a couple of lesbians made the whole thing up, along with that unsubstantiated affidavit some perverted catholic judge signed.

[cpaide]

"Not marrying unbelievers to protect oneself from being lulled into unbelief isn''t racism, 1 Corinthians 7:14 and 16 demand the view."

Posted by denn034

it''s still racism. don''t make the assumption that the author of 1 cor was not racist, or that a person reading it today isn''t filtering it through a racist filter so that it appears to be ok.

[denn034]

"Fer all I know, Warran Jeffs is Jesus Christ!"
Posted by huronian1

First, Jeffs never claimed to be Jesus. Lastly, Jeffs forbad his followers wearing red because, Jesus will wear red when he returns as Jeffs saw it.

[cpaide]

as for the mormans (sic), both "mainstream" and "fundamentalist", all believe that the practice of polygamy is essential to obtaining the highest degree (or level) of the celestial kingdom (the place where heavenly father and jesus reside).

section 132 of the doctrine and covenants is a revelation received by prophet joseph smith in 1831, recorded July 12, 1843, published 1876 and "suspended" by president wilford woodruff''s "manifesto" dated september 24, 1890.

it is a revelation relating to the "new and everlasting covenant", including 1) the eternity of the marriage covenant (paragraphs 15-21)and also 2) the "plurality of wives" (paragraphs 29-66). BOTH of these parts of the new and everlasting covenant are essential to exaltation (dwelling in the highest level of the celestial kingdom).

if this was not so, the 132nd section of the doctrine and covenants (or at least paragraphs 29-66 relating to the plurality of wives) would have been repealed in 1890 or subsequently. that not being the case, the plurality of wives is still a valid doctrine of mormonism, essential to salvation in the celestial kingdom.

[denn034]

"How many more people''''s faiths are you gonna condemn, atheist?"
Posted by huronian1

Jesus condemned the Pharisees and Sadducees, Jewish religious sects of his day, and the Nicolaitans (saying he hated their deeds) in Revelation later on. Besides, Galatians 5:20 makes "heresies" a sin!

[andor3]

the bible quoting is pointless. it is a false argument, known in debating as trying to rely on the authority of a source that is not agreed by all parties to be authoritative. In other words, a lot of people do not care what the bible says or does not say or might say if you interpret it standing on your head and holding your breath.

I am sure this cult had folks who could spend hours explaining the biblical basis for their actions, they always do.

[denn034]

"really? what about that tiny little problem with the multiple wives of prophet abraham (Genesis 25)--not to mention his racism toward the cannanites (Genesis 24)? and how about prophet jacob (Genesis 29) and his wives? all the jewish people are children of polygamists."
Posted by cpaide

Abraham''s and Jacob''s polygamies were dealt with in my earlier postings to this story. Not marrying unbelievers to protect oneself from being lulled into unbelief isn''t racism, 1 Corinthians 7:14 and 16 demand the view.

[cpaide]

"Therefore, there''s no legitimate support for polygamy in the Bible. Period!"
Posted by denn034

really? what about that tiny little problem with the multiple wives of prophet abraham (Genesis 25)--not to mention his racism toward the cannanites (Genesis 24)? and how about prophet jacob (Genesis 29) and his wives? all the jewish people are children of polygamists.

[andor3]

just humans... any group who tries to act like they are more good than everyone else is always being more evil in secret. just humanity and balance.

self-righteousness is the most evil thing there is.

[mustang0072]

I''m pretty sure the alter boys in the Roman Catholic church would agree too that religion shouldn''t be a cover for crime too...seems all religions at one time or another are prone to corruption.

[denn034]

"And yer credibility is wear''''n thin."
Posted by huronian1

Please explain.

[denn034]

One more comment. Jeffs resigned as President of the FLDS, a fact that needs to be repeatedly stated due to the media, nationally and foreign, continually failing to point that out shows. Also, the way the media is covering this story leads to misunderstandings among Americans that the FLDS are Mormons when most were never Mormons. This story seems to try to distinguish between Mormons and FLDS but, it''s the exception generally.

[denn034]

Let me finish by saying that religion should never be allowed to be a cover for crime. The FLDS are clearly a cover for crime and thereby shouldn''t be given the religious protections of the First Amendment. Besides, the Supreme Court recently upheld the polygamy ban.

[denn034]

The Book of Mormon condemns polygamy, the one verse in Jacob 2 that Mormons and the FLDS use to show an exception for polygamy actually condemns it because it says God has to command polygamy or mankind will practice the "these things" of polygamy and pride as per the anti-polygamist RLDS Community Christians whose interpretation I prefer. The polygamy of the Muslims contradicts Jesus'' Matthew monogamous "none else" and Paul''s 1 Timothy and Titus "husband of one wife" statesments contrary to their acknowledgment of Jesus as a prophet only. Therefore, there''s no legitimate support for polygamy in the Bible. Period! If you have anymore questions go to the Church of God, the Eternal web site and request their Polygamy: Blessing or Curse? literature. READ MY FIRST POST FIRST, SECOND ONE SECOND, AND THE LAST ONE LAST TO UNDERSTAND.

[denn034]

Some may insist that the Bible wasn''t correctly translated but, that ignores Jesus'' "not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law til all be fulfilled" and Peter''s "God preserveth his word" statements which, makes the Bible mistranslated argument a calling of God a liar and that''s nonsensical. Some may make the non-literalism argument but, Hal Lindsey''s Road to Holocaust book forcefully argues that Hitler had to use non-literalism to get around the biblical protections for the Jews like in Genesis 12:13 (those that bless Jews get blessed and those who curse Jews get cursed like verses) and Jesus and the Apostles interpreted Old Testament verses, including dual prophetic reference and dual meaning verses, literally (see Lindsey''s book for details).

[denn034]

I just saw the biblical arguments about polygamy. Here''s what I posted on Newsvine about polygamy for everyone''s consideration as appropriate. "Lamach a serial killer is the earliest recorded polygamist which, is a poor precent to follow for sure. Abraham sent his wives "away from Isaac" and Isaac married only Rebekah which, suggests that Abraham repented. Jacob was deceived into marrying Leah so, that marriage wasn''t recognized in God''s eyes. Deuteronomy 17:17 bans any future Israelite king from "multiplying wives unto themselves" like Saul, David, and Solomon did so, they disobeyed Jehovah and that''s definitely not a good precedence. The Isaiah reference that some may refer to earlier referred to "the filth of the daughters of Zion" which, is unquestionably a poor practice to follow. Jesus'' monogamous "cleave unto them and none else" and Paul''s "husband of one wife" statements in the New Testament argue against polygamy as well.
I forgot a few more. Moses'' first wife Miriam''s death isn''t recorded in the Bible at the time it occurred so, there''s no proof she was alive when Moses married the Ethiopian woman. The stipulation that a surviving brother can marry a deceased brother''s wife, I say can because it''s optional, in the Mosaic law is silent as the marital status of the surviving brother so, it''s best to interpret this in the light of Deuteronomy 17:17 and Leviticus 18:18 as referring to single surviving brothers only.

[husein_pasha]

Our secularism is not so to separate the religion from the state than to obey the religion to the state