Comments on: 400 Children Taken From Polygamist Sect

Authorities Investigating Abuse At Compound Put Children In Texas Custody

[voltaire333]

BillORights loves Jesus and Guns! Shout it from the highest mountain! Bill, I''m going to have a gun engraved for your birthday that says "Jesus Loves Winners! Bang, bang, you''re dead, godless liberal!"

[voltaire333]

If you cannot honestly examine the text, maybe you should have someone read it to you. By use of the word honest, I mean to read and investigate without the intent to find fault and error.
Posted by BillORights at 06:21 PM : Apr 09, 2008

Oh dear and wise Bill, please read the passage below to me and explain to me what part of "kill . . . infants" you don''t understand!

"Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and *****." 1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB

[billorights]

Very persuassive! Wish you could back some of it up the way I did. - Posted by voltaire333 at 06:06 PM : Apr 09, 2008

Not very persuasive. If I did support my arguments the way you do, I would lose every time.

If you cannot honestly examine the text, maybe you should have someone read it to you. By use of the word honest, I mean to read and investigate without the intent to find fault and error.

[voltaire333]

One for the road:

"This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: ''I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and *****.''" 1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB

Hmmm, and I thought Christians didn''t like baby killers! Guess I got that one wrong!

[voltaire333]

I can say that I did not find credible bases to support the claim that crimes and misdeeds committed in the name of God are condoned by anything in the Bible.
Posted by BillORights at 06:00 PM : Apr 09, 2008

BillORight''s arguments = you are wrong, you are wrong, and you are wrong.

Very persuassive! Wish you could back some of it up the way I did. Fact is, Bible is a book chuck full of silliness as demonstrated by the quotes I gave you. Your desire to keep your head in the sand is consistent with your fear-based living, which is why you also apparently need to keep a gun nearby! :-)

[billorights]

Ok, methinks someone is still sore about losing an argument over gun control - Posted by voltaire333 at 05:05 PM : Apr 09, 2008

Your arguments are far less effective than you choose to believe.

1. The argument was about constitutional rights, not gun control. If you have deluded yourself into believing that your arguments were equal or superior to any other, you should be aware that you are alone in that delusion. There are many people who will never have an interest in owning a gun, but who know that the constitutional right to keep and bear arms is a cornerstone of our liberty.

2. Your standard response to a question that you cannot understand or answer is to change the subject. To get back on topic, let me explain; even with the examples of verses you have chosen in support of your theory that the Bible condones rape, child molestation, or by some strange extension, armed compounds populated by zealots, you have failed to support your argument.

In the not-too-distant past I would probably have agreed with you, on this subject, as it relates to lunatics, criminals, and things biblical. That position was based on spotty exposure to the Bible, and a general mistrust of religion. I have since carefully read the Bible, front to back, and while I do not consider myself a biblical scholar, or a religious person, I can say that I did not find credible bases to support the claim that crimes and misdeeds committed in the name of God are condoned by anything in the Bible.

[voltaire333]

This equals rape?
Posted by BillORights at 04:25 PM : Apr 09, 2008

Ok, methinks someone is still sore about losing an argument over gun control! :-) If you knew anything about forced marriages, wives being treated as property, and the duty of a wives according to the Bible, you might have a prayer of understanding how much rape has gone on historically. But, I wouldn''t expect a gun nut to be able to piece these things together. Stick to what you think you know: guns.

[billorights]

Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT - Posted by voltaire333 at 04:05 PM : Apr 09, 2008

This is condoning? Can you think of a more fitting punishment? I would bet there is a mother-in-law somewhere in the equation, too.

[billorights]

you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, . . . but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion." - Posted by voltaire333 at 04:21 PM : Apr 09, 2008

This equals rape? I am quite sure the concept of rape, as we know it, was well known in those days. If rape were condoned, why all the other requirements?

[voltaire333]

Does any of these verses apply to the story of this group in Texas? Does any verse you have posted say that God spoke to Warren Jeffs, or anyone else, and told them to establish an offshoot religion, practice polygamy, or molest children? Posted by BillORights at 04:12 PM : Apr 09, 2008

Absolutely, you argued that the Bible does not condone rape. Clearly, you were wrong, and I accept your apology for accusing me of taking a verse out of context. Given that the Bible condones and encourages rape of virgins, I do not see why you find it so implausible that this same God told Jeffs to rape young children. Seems he''s pretty much capable of anything. Let''s take another look:

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. . . . you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, . . . but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)