Comments on: Many In U.S. Drop Their Childhood Religion

Survey: Nearly Half Of U.S. Adults Left Faith They Grew Up With

[sigotratando]

According to Barker, few christians who are willing to be skeptical of the alleged miracles of other religions...
Posted by newster1

I had a debate one time with a wonderful lady over the difference between magic & miracle. If it were not Christ, & you watched some guy at a party where they ran out of wine turn water into wine, you would think "magic!" The lady''s argument was when supernatural things happen in the context of Christianity, that is called a miracle & is "good". In any other context, it is magic, which is evil. I don''t know if you''ve heard of the "Euthyphro Dilemma", but our debate falls into that general sphere.

About your comment regarding those who might make a serious effort to validate the central miracle of Christianity, another anecdote: I have a brother who is a Mormon bishop, & I myself have done a great deal of study on that faith. When I posed the question, "if I cld show you beyond a shadow of doubt that what you believe was utter fantasy, wld you leave the church," to which he relied, "no". There just too many other good things involved to throw the baby out with the bathwater. "Religion" is merely the packaging for a set of principles.

[nothappyatall]

jayzus gave me a number today but its not complete, but its certainly materializing in my head, here is what came to me so far 937-882-XXXX almost looks like a lottery number or something!

[nothappyatall]

There was criticism of and opposition to Hitler and the Nazis among Catholic leaders before 1933; after that, both criticism and opposition were relatively rare. When they did occur, it was more likely to come from individual catholics or the few Catholic organizations that managed to hold on to their existence. catholic prelates had very little to say that directly criticized the Nazis or the Nazi agenda.

Some catholics, including the current Pope Benedict XVI, %u201Clearned%u201D from their experiences in Nazi Germany that the best way to oppose evil, totalitarian regimes is through enforced discipline and orthodoxy with in the church. This is rather difficult to accept, though, when neither the church officials in Germany nor those in the Vatican were seen leading any opposition to the evil Nazi regime

It wasnt a failure of unity that prevented Catholics in Germany from standing up to the Nazis, it was a failure of leadership %u2014 and that%u2019s not something which enforced discipline and orthodoxy can counter. On the contrary, dissuading individual Catholics from the idea that they can legitimately dissent from the decisions of the church hierarchy can actually make things more difficult because it will prevent them from stepping in when their leaders fail again

[nothappyatall]

Despite these disclaimers, the negative image of %u2018neo-heathenism%u2019, which the NSDAP could not shake off, undoubtedly played a considerable role in bolstering the high level of relative immunity to Nazism which prevailed before 1933 in Catholic circles. Even after the disappearance of the Catholic press in the early years of the Third Reich, Catholic clergy were able to sustain the image through their own subtle %u2018propaganda%u2019 methods %u2014 greatly assisted by the often crude assaults of the Nazis themselves in the %u2018Church struggle%u2019 %u2014 and it remained throughout the Third Reich an important basis of the alienation of the Catholic population from the regime and of forms of partial opposition to Nazism in the Catholic subculture.

Even so, the notion that there might be some authoritarian, patriotic, anti-Marxist, residual %u2018good%u2019 in Nazism, that %u2018National Socialism, notwithstanding everything, might succeed some day in eliminating from its programme and its activities all that which conflicted in principle and practice with catholicism%u2019, offered the opening for the volte-face which catholic bishops were prepared to make following Hitler%u2019s avowals of tolerance and support for the Church in March 1933 and the potential, too, for driving a wedge between %u2018the god-fearing statesman%u2019 Hitler and the anti-christian Party radicals, especially Rosenberg.

[nothappyatall]

Some of the most important commonalities between the Nazis and religious conservatives %u2014 especially catholics %u2014 were anti-communism, anti-atheism, and anti-secularism. The Nazis were a %u201Csecular%u201D party in the sense of not attempting to form a new church or religion and many Nazis tended to be anti-clerical, but support and promotion of %u201Cpositive Christianity%u201D was an important platform of the Nazi part from its earliest days.

Still, more than one prominent Nazi was anti-Christian and hoped to promote a new type of paganism. Such views were never officially endorsed by the Nazis or by Hitler, but their existence was more than enough to generate suspicion on the part of many Christians in Germany %u2014 at least, until the 1933 elections, at which point christian leaders who had been critical of the Nazis experienced a miraculous conversion.

[nothappyatall]

[S]peaking before a mass gathering in the Catholic stronghold of Bavaria in April 1932, Hitler told his audience that while north German Protestants had labeled him a hireling of Rome and south German Catholics a pagan worshipper of Woden, he was merely of the opinion %u2014 here playing to some widespread anti-clerical sentiments %u2014 that priests in Germany, just as was the case in Italy, should end their political activities and confine themselves to denominational matters and pastoral duties: what the Pope had admitted to in Italy, he concluded, could not be sinful in Germany. In fact, he was at pains to stress, he himself was deeply religious, the %u2018spiritual distress%u2019 of the German people even greater than its economic misery, and the toleration of over fourteen million anti-religious atheistic Marxists in Germany highly regrettable.

[nothappyatall]

Christianity vs Judaism: Christian Anti-Semitism, Persecution of Jews
The relationship between Christianity and Judaism has traditionally been very poor. Over the past two millennia, christians have engaged in or supported persistent, hateful anti-Semitism which has seen the death and suffering of millions of Jews in Europe and beyond. christian Antisemitism and anti-Judaism can be traced back to the earliest days of christianity, culminating in the Nazi Holocaust of the 20th century. Is christianity inherently anti-Semitic.

Relationship Between Catholicism and Nazism in Germany.

A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-christian while devout christians were anti-Nazi. The truth, however, is far more complicated because there were many issues on which Nazis and religious conservatives found common ground. Like any politician, Hitler was able to use these to his advantage.
In The %u2018Hitler Myth%u2019: Image and Reality in the Third Reich, Ian Kershaw writes:

[nothappyatall]

So, instead of targeting Jews directly, they instead target organizations which are Jewish (ADL) or which can labeled as Jewish (ACLU). The problem with Jews, apparently, is their failure to convert to Christianity %u2014 and this puts them in league with the anti-Christ.

Neiwert also quotes a Southern Poverty Law Center report on Hovind:

Opened in 2001, Dinosaur Adventure Land sprung from Hovind%u2019s Creation Science Evangelism ministry, which began to evolve in the late %u201880s. CSE sells videos and audiotapes of Hovind%u2019s lectures and his debates with evolutionary scientists, along with books on %u201CEvolution and the New World Order.%u201D (At least one of them, Fourth Reich of the Rich, alleges a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.)

Are Kent Hovind and Michael Marcavage anti-Semites who believe that the Jews are trying to take over? Maybe not; at a bare minimum, though, their beliefs are compatible with that and the arguments they make help encourage such anti-Semitism. The popularity of their arguments is, as Neiwert notes, helping pull American conservatism even further to the extreme right where anti-Semitism and violence live.

[nothappyatall]

christian Hate: Evolution is a Jewish Conspiracy


christian extremists make up all sorts of things about evolution and science in order to push their theocratic agenda, but one of the most disturbing is the idea that evolution is part of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. It''s bizarre, but then again all conspiracy theories are pretty bizarre.

Dave Neiwert specializes in covering the racist and anti-Semitic propaganda in the American Right and he quotes a news report on Kent Hovind''s anti-evolution efforts in the Dover, Pennsylvania area:

Michael Marcavage, whose Philadelphia-based organization Repent America is sponsoring Hovind%u2019s visit, said the accusations of anti-Semitism and extremism are unfair.

%u201CHe believes that people are from one race, the human race,%u201D Marcavage said.

He said some Jewish organizations, such as the Anti-Defamation League and the American Civil Liberties Union, are targeting christians because of their faith.

%u201CThose who do not confess that jesus christ has come in the flesh are under the spirit of anti-christ,%u201D Marcavage added, a reference to 1 John 4:2-3.

[nothappyatall]

Part of the common conceit which many humans have is the belief that, as human beings, we are completely separate and different from the rest of the animal world. People may accept positive, metaphorical comparisons with certain animals, but a distance between themselves and animals must be maintained. This may be one reason why so many are so averse to evolutionary theory.
If you look at attacks on evolution, you''ll find frequent complaints about being compared with animals, about children being encouraged to act like animals, and rejections of being immediately related to animals. Many of the same far-right christians who object to evolution on such grounds may also criticize others %u2014 especially g@ys %u2014 in dehumanizing rhetoric which likens them to lower animals or vermin. Although it''s probably not occurring on a conscious level, all of this may have common attitude in the background which needs to be addressed before the issues themselves can be addressed.